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Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

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Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#251

Post by Vvector »

oceanplexian wrote: post #246
matthewdgreen wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will we ever deliver 240VAC electricity to locations that are directly adjacent to urban city streets. Seems like an intractable problem. /s

240VAC, maybe if you have 4-6 hours for your car to charge. You need a minimum 3 phase 480v electrical source to charge even a small battery in under an hour. We are talking 150-200Kw, or the equivalent energy to run around 170 American sized households to fast charge a single car. You think that’s happening in Europe, pretty much ever?

"You need a minimum 3 phase 480v electrical source to charge even a small battery in under an hour. We are talking 150-200Kw?"

The Tesla 3 Long Range AWD has a 76 kWh battery with a range of 358 miles (576 km). The average European car drives 18,000 km/year, or 72 km/day or 10 kWh/day with Tesla's efficiency.

If everyone has giant EV pickups with 200kWh batteries driving 500 miles every day, yeah you have a problem. But that's the tiny minority.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#252

Post by clouddrover »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #242
clouddrover wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TheLoafOfBread will have a better time using better charging networks, the ones he will set up as his preferred charging providers in A Better Routeplanner. Instead of talking in circles, just try A Better Routeplanner.

This thread is getting a little deep, but to close it out, I decided to indulge you and plan a somewhat typical commute for me from a while back. The total trip time including charging ends up being 3 hours. The same trip sans charging times is under 2 hours. That's 5 hours a week extra that I would be losing out. The trips are also short enough that I also don't need a break that sitting around waiting for charging…

> The total trip time including charging ends up being 3 hours. The same trip sans charging times is under 2 hours.

Hey, super. Show the trip and the car. Let's see it.

> So yes, I will agree, ABRP does simplify things. I couldn't imagine having to deal with finding the charging stations and planning out my route without a tool like that.

Good. So there was nothing for you to argue about from the beginning.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#253

Post by clouddrover »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #241
clouddrover wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't actually want any practical solutions. You just want to have a whinge and a moan. Instead of wishing for what isn't, you could be doing a lot better with what is.

I don't need a "practical" application of local gas network to buy gas. I don't need a "practical" application of local supermarket chain to buy grocieries. Why should I tolerate buggy applications to charge an electric car on incompatible chargers? Why there isn't an NFC terminal which I can find almost in any store in EU and today even on vending machines? The chargers already have internet connection, so where is…

> I am not a masochist

I think you are. Why else would you buy something you didn't understand? You plainly didn't think through the practicalities before you bought it.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#254

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

clouddrover wrote: post #253
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't need a "practical" application of local gas network to buy gas. I don't need a "practical" application of local supermarket chain to buy grocieries. Why should I tolerate buggy applications to charge an electric car on incompatible chargers? Why there isn't an NFC terminal which I can find almost in any store in EU and today even on vending machines? The chargers already have internet connection, so where is…

> I am not a masochist I think you are. Why else would you buy something you didn't understand? You plainly didn't think through the practicalities before you bought it.

Oh, so 12 years from now only BEVs will be available, what will be your recommendation to people who will have same issues like I do? Tell them that they are masochists, who don't understand the car and they should not have bought it at a first place, despite the fact, that their choices are artificially limited?

I bought the car using my own money to get the experience with BEV and I found out, that it sucks big time. I was expecting that it might be a little bit inconvenient, but I was not expecting to be such a massive bag of problems with BEV proponents like you trying to gaslight me that user is the problem.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#255

Post by throwayyy479087 »

neon_electro wrote: post #167
BizarreByte wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota is probably the only brand loyalty I have and yah, I’ll happily keep buying either gas or hybrids from them. I’m in no rush for electric, but when Toyota makes an EV Corolla that’ll be a sign to me EVs are actually ready for normal people. They’ve rightfully gained my trust and their seal of approval on car tech does matter to me.

What do you think of GM's Bolt E(U)V?

Apparently owners LOVE them. The way they talk reminds me of the Honda Fit owner obsession.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#256

Post by clouddrover »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #254
clouddrover wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not a masochist I think you are. Why else would you buy something you didn't understand? You plainly didn't think through the practicalities before you bought it.

Oh, so 12 years from now only BEVs will be available, what will be your recommendation to people who will have same issues like I do? Tell them that they are masochists, who don't understand the car and they should not have bought it at a first place, despite the fact, that their choices are artificially limited? I bought the car using my own money to get the experience with BEV and I found out, that it sucks big tim…

> what will be your recommendation to people who will have same issues like I do?

They won't have the same issues like you do. You're doing a lot of this to yourself.

> BEV proponents like you trying to gaslight me that user is the problem.

No one's gaslighting you. You're refusing to use the tools that will make it easier for you.

Are you using A Better Routeplanner yet? Configure it to prioritise your preferred charging networks so you don't end up trying to charge on Freshmile again.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#257

Post by panick21_ »

bischofs wrote: post #166
oblio wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Deming ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Japan ) contributed to the Toyota Way? A lot of the Toyota Way seems inspired by his teachings.

I work at Toyota, and they credit him on day one of training on the Toyota philosophy. Toyota's success is just a function of them listening to western consultants after the war when western companies would not.

Funny enough once cars from Japan started kicking the ass of the big three, they paid those people a lot to come to the US again and copy Japan.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#258

Post by panick21_ »

epolanski wrote: post #229
clouddrover wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They sell 25% more cars than the Volkswagen group (second biggest car maker on the planet) No. Volkswagen and Toyota are pretty even. They swap positions as the biggest car maker. Volkswagen became the biggest in 2017 but Toyota became the biggest again in 2021: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/28/business/toyota-volkswage...

I was referring to 2022 sales, not historical data. In 2022 Toyota sold 2.5M cars more which means a 30% bump over VW group.

Where are you getting up to date data one these things?

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#259

Post by NDizzle »

chris222 wrote: post #145
NDizzle wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2nd or 3rd generation anything will still score lower than even a launch year Toyota when it comes to quality.

Actually they are having huge quality problems with their first BEV. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40827514/toyota-bz4x-whee...

Huge quality problems? Toyota recalled 250 cars. Tesla recalls hundreds of thousands every year like clockwork.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#260

Post by starkd »

mgfist wrote: post #244
starkd wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was not my point. The consumer should be able to decide when/if that happens. Not some arbitrarily imposed timeline. Advances in technology should be tested in the consumer marketplace.

There's no "if". And the when is just a matter of time required to bring up mineral/battery supply chains. EVs are already (in most cases) cheaper than equivalent ICE vehicles over the lifetime of a vehicle. Soon they will become cheaper upfront as well. ICE won't compete very well after that, except in the luxury/enthusiast market. Consumers choose automobiles over horse and buggy. They are choosing EV over ICE too,…

There's a significant percentage of EV owners that regret their purchase. They either sell it and buy and ICE vehicle, or their next purchase is not an EV. (I have talked to such people. They are not hard to find.) Admittedly some are happy with it, but your statement ignores the fickle nature of consumer demand.
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