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Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

oalexanderdk.substack.com

321–330 of 439 posts

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#321
post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a world where the CIA has a heart attack gun [1], a presidential administration faked evidence of WMD to go to war in Iraq, the CDC conducted secret medical torture on black men with syphilis, and the Pentagon sent JFK proposals to justify a war on Cuba by conducting false flag terrorist attacks against American civilians [2]. (JFK rejected them, apparently.) So I read a list like yours, and read you scoff…

Yes and you know what all those things have in common? Actual evidence which corresponds to real events, and multiple sources confirming that they happened. What Hersh's suppositions have is a stunning lack of verifiable evidence and observably factually incorrect assertions (as in the case of his articles on Nordstream).

Saying someone's claims don't (yet) have the kind of evidence you demand is pretty different from calling someone crazy (and in so doing implying that those claims are not worth the consideration of the sane).

The only thing your bullet points were doing is suggesting "look at the delusions of this maniac! He can't be trusted because of them". But because the completely insane shit in my list turned out to be true, Hersh's sorts of claims are at least as plausible as the insane shit I listed in my reply. (And in the case of the first two, they were labeled by bienpensants of all kinds as proof that the claimant was certifiably nuts or at least unworthy of Serious Attention ... until the day they were shown to be true.)

All I'm saying is that, given the factual record of conspiracy and sociopathy on the part of the world's powerful, something like "2013 chemical weapons attack in Syria was a "false flag" staged by the government of Turkey" can't easily be used to dismiss someone as nuts. Not enough evidence? Sure, whatever (but let's wait a decade or two). Crazy though? Nope.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the Hersh thesis is completely made up, he still makes more sense than what this guy does. For one thing. The most plausible reason he can't find the plane dropping the buoy he privides himself. -It's a small device. -Better to use a boat. -Better to use a non military boat. Yeah? Maybe that is what they did? It's not impossible the source filled in a few gaps in his story? Or was mistaken? Or Hersh himself m…

It's not what they did, according to Hersh! It's not a minor gap in the story! Hersh claims the Norwegian Navy allocated an Alta-class minesweeper to the task of operating as a diving platform for American divers. You can't say "well, maybe that's not what happened then!" and act like the story is intact. If major details in the story are false, that's a big deal! You can absolutely still believe the US blew up the p…

To play some devils advocate, is it possible for either Hersh or the supposed source changed some of the more superfluous details to obfuscate exactly what they know and who could have leaked it? Not trying to root for anyone or be an America-bad type here. Just having a hard time believing that the specific delivery vehicle used is anything more than a pedantic detail for future historians.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#323
post #248
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hersh stopped working within journalistic organizations, with their editors, fact-checkers, second-sourcing, etc - the organizations in which all his previous and more credible and verifiable work was done. That's a concrete fact, not 'tribalistic bias'. There's no basis whatsoever for you to attribute skepticism of recent Hersh to it, it's just namecalling.

Even if he wanted to work within those journalistic organizations and everything he said was true, they wouldn’t publish it. There’s really no other option for him at this point.

The fact they didn't want to work with him, after many years of him dropping huge bombshells they published, the literal foundation of his reputation, says more about his later work than than theirs, no? It's strange to claim his inability to find publishers for his non-verifiable work somehow confirms its credibility.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#324
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit confused, do you have some personal relationship to the author? Or why do you get personally offended when people question (not attack) the author of this particular substack? NATO had plenty of big navy drills around the area last year. Who would complain about NATO ships in the area? Russia? Why do you even get hung up on that point? https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_196240.htm?selectedL...

tptacek, you still haven't explained how Biden, Nuland, Sullivan and Blinken are all on video saying that NS pipelines will be destroyed. Why are you so heavily invested in this and why are you defending this insane criminal cabal that is pushing us into WW3?

You're response to the question of logical consistency in the Hersh story is "who cares about consistency, I don't like Biden or the US so it must be true, anyone who disagrees is 'heavily vested in an insane criminal cabal'". Why are you so heavily invested? Answer the question

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The fear, however, was that the bombs wouldn’t work if they stayed in the water too long. This is actually what happened with two of the bombs. > Seriously? The world's largest military hasn't developed explosive devices that are sufficiently waterproof? The OP might be referring to the triggering mechanism running out of battery and thus unable to receive the triggering signal, rather than to water exposure.

Perhaps, but again I'd posit that the world's most advanced military wouldn't mind slapping on a few more batteries, just to be sure.

You repeat “the worlds most advanced military “ like it makes them infallible.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#326
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit confused, do you have some personal relationship to the author? Or why do you get personally offended when people question (not attack) the author of this particular substack? NATO had plenty of big navy drills around the area last year. Who would complain about NATO ships in the area? Russia? Why do you even get hung up on that point? https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_196240.htm?selectedL...

tptacek, you still haven't explained how Biden, Nuland, Sullivan and Blinken are all on video saying that NS pipelines will be destroyed. Why are you so heavily invested in this and why are you defending this insane criminal cabal that is pushing us into WW3?

[deleted]

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#327
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Putin was not going to tolerate a NATO member a few minutes of rocket time from Moscow. But ... that's already there and has been for a long time. And now two more neighbors have pledged to join. If the intent was really to stop or reduce the neighboring countries who are NATO members, it hasn't really worked out that well.

I follow both the NYT and Wapo, and The New Atlas, Douglas MacGregor, and Alexander Mercouris. The latter group has been far more accurate in their predictions and their analysis is far more logically composed.

Mice have a gestation period of about 8 weeks.

(your response is an irrelevant non sequitur)

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot missing from this account such as: The US promising not to expand NATO beyond Germany. The Maidan coup in 2014. The Minsk agreement where Kiev agreed to stop bombing the Donbas but has still killed over 14K people doing so. The Ruble is strong and Russia's GDP will grow more than the UK this year.

The US made no such official promise. Apparently not even unofficially, Gorbachev denied that Clinton ever made that personal promise.

You're wrong. There was indeed never anything "official", but high-level diplomats (such as the US Secretary of State) did promise as much behind closed doors. See https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017...

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#329
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tptacek, you still haven't explained how Biden, Nuland, Sullivan and Blinken are all on video saying that NS pipelines will be destroyed. Why are you so heavily invested in this and why are you defending this insane criminal cabal that is pushing us into WW3?

You're response to the question of logical consistency in the Hersh story is "who cares about consistency, I don't like Biden or the US so it must be true, anyone who disagrees is 'heavily vested in an insane criminal cabal'". Why are you so heavily invested? Answer the question

These people are on record for threatening the pipeline. They had the motive and the means. So why should we disbelieve their threats? Sy Hersh is the most trusted living investigative reporter today. I'll take his word over some OSINTbro shill any day of the week. And to claim that Russians destroyed their own pipeline is ludicrous. Once they start cutting our undersea cables and destroying our pipelines, I guess they'll claim we're doing it to ourselves. Same "logic".

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#330
> OSINT & Analysis by Oliver Alexander OSINT (Open Source Intelligence), natural gas, current events. Get in depth analysis covering a multitude of subjects straight to your inbox.

This looks like an account made to "explain stories". Even the picture is of "young army cadet". He has exactly 1000 followers and i bet the account is only a couple of days long. TBH i hoped that the 3 letter agencies employ better people.

To debunk the story he needs a better story, not a literary analysis.

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