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Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

fortune.com

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Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#751

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

goodpoint wrote: post #728
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me why I shouldn't. What evidence do you have that refutes their findings?

Are you kidding me? One of most powerful organizations in the world specialized on handling secrets and you want evidence? They violate the US constitution and you expect them to hand out evidence? There has been previous episodes of people (proved and documented) of people attempting to speak up and being silenced, imprisoned etc. Any person threatening to go to the press can be arrested for treason. And if you look…

Yes, I want evidence. I'm open to any evidence that casts doubt on any of the claims in their report.

Otherwise, you are asserting that a bipartisan intelligence committee of elected officials are all lying.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#752

Post by fwungy »

ss108 wrote: post #745
fwungy wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Washington D.C. is a high crime city, but you can safely walk in the National Mall at any hour of the day or night alone, and people do. If it were anywhere else it would be a place be a place most people wouldn't feel safe at when alone late at night in a city like DC. Know why? Because Capitol Hill and the Mall are secured six ways to Sunday. It is the seat of the US global empire. Congressmembers and high official…

? This is just dumb. Who cares whether they were armed? The point is that they had the motive to do wrong and they took action in furtherance of it. They don't deserve leniency for being various forms of incompetent. It's pretty disgusting you'd make the moral choice to peg the media as lying instead of being appalled that people stormed Congress and fought the capitol police.

Do you hold the other occupiers of Congress to the same standard?

Congress chose to let them in because they could have stopped them if they didn't want them inside.

You probably didn't read and understand what I said.

THE CAPITOL IS ONE OF THE MOST SECURE SITES IN THE WORLD. UNARMED PROTESTERS DID NOT STORM IT. THEY WERE ALLOWED INSIDE.

That the media cannot figure something so simple out tells all.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#753

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

recuter wrote: post #113
bigger_inside wrote: post #47

There are literal mountains of sociological studies on how (state and corporate) media have been in service of the powers that be, for decades, and how exactly this works. With a mountain of examples. So, for sociologists, this feels like "wow, it only took half a century to trickle through." Though of course this is the wrong reaction; it has always trickled through. Only that, in the past, it took a few years or de…

> But many of the structural pressures that sociologists have long identified shape commercial and state sourced news stories just don't apply to independent journalists If Matt Taibi get Keshloggied it would not amaze me if his former colleagues bury the story or even spin it as a good thing. I don't predict he will actually get killed but ask yourself, would you be surprised if he was or does a part of you half exp…

Duty.

You are correct. Its a hardscrabble life.

There is no payoff, except for the duty of the profession.

This is unfortunately the one thing that society seems to be lacking dramatically these days. From policemen that don't rush in to rescue children in danger of being murdered by psychos, to administrators that feel that doctors should get time off to "reflect" on X person getting killed by a cop (cancer doesn't take days off... grandma's back pain doesn't take the day off). Duty is severely lacking across all layers of society.

The tone from the top seems to be encouraging this. Now, "its ok to be soft" instead of "power through, people depend on you"

We need more Taibbis and Intercepts, willing to do their duty.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#754

Post by carapace »

rewilding wrote: post #444
carapace wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't make educated choices, they don't make choices at all. Human societies can be broadly categorized into three groups: 1) The largest group (typically more than half) don't know what's going on. 2) The second group sees what's going on but doesn't do anything about it. 3) The third group (which is really tiny, like 1-in-10000) sees what's going on and does things, or they try to. The open secret among groups…

Can you support your claims as for these ratios? I can't support my claim well, but I picture people to be more equally-distributed among those 3 groups. Also, I'd state it more starkly: 1) 1/3 don't know or care about the suffering of people in general. 2) 1/3 wish harm on others or care so little about others that they'll seek even small personal gains at others' great expense. 3) 1/3 at least feel compassion for o…

> Can you support your claims as for these ratios?

I think the article we're commenting on is just that, no?

> Half of Americans in a recent survey indicated they believe national news organizations intend to mislead, misinform or persuade the public to adopt a particular point of view through their reporting.

That would seem to imply that more than half of Americans didn't realize that until recently, eh?

> I'd state it more starkly: 1) 1/3 don't know or care about the suffering of people in general. 2) 1/3 wish harm on others or care so little about others that they'll seek even small personal gains at others' great expense. 3) 1/3 at least feel compassion for others, but might not have the ability or resolve to make substantial change.

I think you're talking about something else than I am. You seem to be talking about motivation, I'm talking about political power. The OP's question was, "how can then this democracy function" if "people [can't] make educated choices?"

FWIW, your second group reminds me of Carlo M. Cipolla's "The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity": https://web.archive.org/web/20130216132858/http://www.cantri...

> Why do you think that group 1 is the one that needs to be controlled?

Do you mean my group 1 or your group 1? My group 1 needs to be controlled if you want a complex society. Otherwise they'll destroy it without malice through entropy.

If you mean your group 1 then I don't think they should be controlled, but I would encourage them to try to develop compassion.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#755

Post by duckmysick »

blululu wrote: post #435
kthejoker2 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sources do you personally trust?

Not the OP, but this is a leading question that goes in the wrong direction. You can't really trust any source 100%. You need to do your own research and be humble about it. Journalists are good at this kind of work but they make plenty of mistakes (and as the child of Journalists I will also add that they can be total idiots who are more focused on emotional stories than facts). Basic media literacy with a healthy d…

> You need to do your own research and be humble about it.

It takes me between 30 and 60 minutes to research a short news article in a topic that I'm familiar with. For topics I'm not an expert in it's multiple hours.

I simply don't have time for it. Family, work, and sleep already occupy much of my day.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#756

Post by ss108 »

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #503
kthejoker2 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the ones who aren't cartoons don't really do enough to counter the ones who do. Just a bunch of whataboutism and "anything to own the libs" mentality. And honestly being supporters of a person instead of a policy or a position is itself a psychological failing.

And how many on the blue side are actively policing their own? > And honestly being supporters of a person instead of a policy or a position is itself a psychological failing. You'll get no argument from me on that front, but I think that's a pretty bipartisan failing. Edit: although thinking about it more, it's the person who is going to get your pet agenda items enacted, so practically it probably works better.

> You'll get no argument from me on that front, but I think that's a pretty bipartisan failing.

Not really? Has there been any cult of personality like Trump's not only among Dems but also among Republicans, aside from him, in American politics within living memory? (awk phrasing, but I think you get the idea).

Maybe Reagan? But even then, it wasn't this level of incredibly personal devotion.

Think about it: we never used the terms "Obama supporter" or "Romney supporter" in 2012, or "Obama supporter" and "McCain supporter" in 2008. And people supporting those candidates didn't wave flags with candidate names on them, etc.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#757

Post by ss108 »

refurb wrote: post #749
somewhat_drunk wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes spades need to be labeled as such.

That kind of rhetoric sounds awfully similar to what led to the tragedies in Cambodia, Yugoslavia and Indonesia. I hope your political views mature someday to the point you realize how counterproductive it is.

Really? Recognizing that people who vote out of bigotry and ignorance are trash is what led to that? Calling out people who openly and proudly believe in conspiracy theories is what led to that? Assuming you aren't a Trump supporter, what would they have to do in order for you to believe they are bad and need to be called out as such? Start lynching Blacks en masse? Firebombing the offices of lawyers who represent asylum seekers?

My impression from this thread is that you'd make an excuse even if they started doing those things.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#758

Post by ghqst »

stuckinhell wrote: post #633
ghqst wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disney also employs a lot of LGBTQ employees who were quite understandably really pissed at DeSantis. There's a line to be toed between "public liberal good boy points" for PR and the benefits of self governance, and I think Disney made a decent compromise.

Its certainly an interesting case study (as someone being trained for an executive position), I think about it a lot. You are really fucked as an Executive here. You're social activists employees will undermine and subvert you. Florida will use State power against you. Maybe the Federal government might intervene in your space, but they probably won't care. My conclusion and many executives at my firm is target the s…

This response makes logical sense, but it deepens my hatred of capitalism. Activists who oppose losing their human rights to a proto-fascist governor are silenced by a company because they're getting in the way of profits, the number one priority for any company or individual. Morally terrible.

Yes, I suppose I do sound like a "woke moralist".

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#760

Post by refurb »

ss108 wrote: post #757
refurb wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of rhetoric sounds awfully similar to what led to the tragedies in Cambodia, Yugoslavia and Indonesia. I hope your political views mature someday to the point you realize how counterproductive it is.

Really? Recognizing that people who vote out of bigotry and ignorance are trash is what led to that? Calling out people who openly and proudly believe in conspiracy theories is what led to that? Assuming you aren't a Trump supporter, what would they have to do in order for you to believe they are bad and need to be called out as such? Start lynching Blacks en masse? Firebombing the offices of lawyers who represent as…

You're so deep you can't even if see how damaging your own rhetoric is.

You really think 42% of the US are bigots who will lynch blacks and firebomb lawyers?

I think you need to take a break from social media. There is a big world out there that you don't know a lot about.

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