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Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

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Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#121

Post by Convolutional »

christkv wrote: post #99
einpoklum wrote: post #87

> I doubt Jens Stoltenberg was a US intelligence asset in his early teens. Actually, it seems Stoltenberg was politically active during the late years of the Vietnam war, as a teenager: https://www.patreon.com/posts/unlocked-young-78471711 that doesn't mean he necessarily "worked directly with US intelligence", but - he might have. He did go on to become a staunch NATO-supporter after all. > mine clearing has long be…

Confusion with his father Thorvald Stoltenberg

Thorvald was defense minister. His son had interactions with the student peace movement as a teenager. If the son passed information to the father, and this was passed to the CIA - then the CIA would have known of him from his teenage years.

Norwegian papers were filled in recent years with the massive intelligence operations against Norwegian student anti-NATO groups. The US was terrified Norway would follow France and start pulling back from NATO.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#122

Post by honkler »

mturmon wrote: post #119
honkler wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're jumping to a conclusion here -- sometimes the journalist does change. Plenty of political journalists go off the deep end at some point in their career. (Prof.) Mark Crispin Miller used to write well-researched essays on the culture of TV, now he believes that Sandy Hook was likely staged and that the standard explanation for 9/11 isn't true. Christopher Hitchens made a significant swerve to the right later in…

[flagged]

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#125

Post by runnerup »

floxy wrote: post #118
runnerup wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I personally think its reasonable that the USA blew up the pipeline. Personally I'm at about 75% USA, 20% Russia, 5% someone else. I just also believe that Hersh's article was really, really, incredibly bad.

I haven't followed any of this really at all, but is there a compelling reason why Ukraine isn't at the top of everyone's list? Seems like they would have the motive to prevent Germany from giving-in to Russian demands to keep gas flowing and at the same time hurt Russia. It doesn't seem like it was a highly technical or expensive operation that would have prevented a smaller player from accomplishing it, and in fact…

Maybe! I feel everything Ukraine does is under a microscope and they’d be hesitant to upset the USA or risk losing intl support by going rogue on something like this.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#126

Post by rpeden »

1-more wrote: post #103
mberning wrote: post #94

The head scratcher is why you would use any surface ships at all for such a clandestine operation.

can you deploy divers from subs?

You sure can! It was used quite extensively Operation Ivy Bells: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ivy_Bells

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#127

Post by floxy »

runnerup wrote: post #125
floxy wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't followed any of this really at all, but is there a compelling reason why Ukraine isn't at the top of everyone's list? Seems like they would have the motive to prevent Germany from giving-in to Russian demands to keep gas flowing and at the same time hurt Russia. It doesn't seem like it was a highly technical or expensive operation that would have prevented a smaller player from accomplishing it, and in fact…

Maybe! I feel everything Ukraine does is under a microscope and they’d be hesitant to upset the USA or risk losing intl support by going rogue on something like this.

That doesn't seem like going rogue. The pipeline was already off. Sanctions are in effect. This just seems like ensuring the status quo is kept in place.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#128

Post by mannerheim »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #97
tptacek wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the same analysis: it doesn't even make sense that they'd require an Alta-class ship from Norway's Navy in the first place; the ship was essentially just a diving platform, and civilian ships operate in those waters with far less need for cover. Moreover, the whole structure of the operation Hersh claims: EC-UBA divers planting C4 charges detonated by a sonobuoy dropped by a Norwegian P8, doesn't make se…

When you qualify Hersh as one of journalism's least trustworthy figures, it's impossible to take the rest of your comment at face value.

[flagged]

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#130

Post by alienicecream »

pvg wrote: post #108
alienicecream wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's the one where governments with the most capable intelligence agencies in the world are quiet about who committed an act of international terrorism against an important piece of industrial infrastructure at the bottom of the ocean. One largely owned by Germany, a key NATO member. If this was some eco terrorism (imagining for a moment that they would have the means to procure the explosives and expertise to…

In 2014 there was a sabotage operation against a munitions depot in Vrbětice in the Czech republic, a NATO member. There was no official attribution for half a decade. Lack of immediate attribution as a basis for assigning responsibility seems mostly cherrypicking and vibes.

Valid point, but I don't think the importance and notoriety of these events are comparable.
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