Writing JavaScript without a build system • Hacker News Board

Re: Writing JavaScript without a build system

#61

Post by mLuby » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 11:49 PM UTC

whstl wrote: post #16

kitsunesoba wrote: post #11

I've used `tsc --watch` as an almost-no-build-step way to write plain TypeScript with better structure (separate files, etc) for projects where dependencies aren't necessary, which works reasonably well with a few quirks, but I wish there were something more purpose-built for the task. TypeScript running natively in the browser would be amazing but I doubt that'll ever happen.

I wonder how far fetched it would be to have just the syntax of Typescript on the browser without type-checking. We'd have to use tsc locally only for the typechecking, without the need of a build process, but that would be enough for me. I know there's JSDoc but the normal syntax is so much better. EDIT: Looks like there's a proposal: https://github.com/tc39/proposal-type-annotations

IIRC that's how the Flow type annotations worked, but of course it lost out to TypeScript.

Re: Writing JavaScript without a build system

#62

Post by shadowgovt » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 11:51 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #29

A lightning rod of an idea I’m sure, but would it help if typescript was accepted by browsers but ignored? Then I can write my typings in-line rather than in comments, and check them, but not have to transpile. I guess “enum” as a special snowflake would fail this. Where I’m coming from is that I can live without most build steps for a small project… but I can’t live without typescript.

Python typing kind of went in that direction.

Re: Writing JavaScript without a build system

#63

Post by TheRealPomax » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 11:51 PM UTC

With JS having `import` these days, there really is zero point in bundling if you're writing normal modern JS. Just let the browser deal with caching, it's good at that, it's literally half of what it's been optimized for. The other half being JS execution.

Re: Writing JavaScript without a build system

#64

Post by nicoburns » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 11:52 PM UTC

zapt02 wrote: post #33

Getting older projects to run was a huge pain for me when I started working with JavaScript, but I have found two easy steps to get around this: 1. Use nvm + an .nvmrc file in your project to pin the major version of Node.js you are using. I recently got a five year old Node 8 project up and running with no issues using this method. 2. Try to avoid packages that has binary dependencies (like node-sass). 99% of binary…

If you use a `.node-version` file it will work with both nodenv and asdf

Re: Writing JavaScript without a build system

#65

Post by scotty79 » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 11:55 PM UTC

I wonder how hard it would be for Browsers to natively strip TypeScript syntax from the .ts files without checking and run them as .js

Re: Writing JavaScript without a build system

#66

Post by herpdyderp » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 11:57 PM UTC

spankalee wrote: post #45

If anyone's looking for something like a framework that works with buildless workflows you might check out the project I work on: Lit ( https://lit.dev ) Lit gives you reactive components, declarative HTML templates, runtime encapsulated DOM and styles, interoperability with frameworks and HTML via web components, and a lot more - with no required build tools at all. We take great care to make sure our libraries are…

I've been doing web dev for 20 years and Lit has finally allowed me to achieve my dream of what I've imagined web dev should've been like this entire time. Thank you for your work, please keep it up!

Re: Writing JavaScript without a build system

#67

Post by laurentoget » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 11:57 PM UTC

nonethewiser wrote: post #8

tarkin2 wrote: post #5

Use npm to install libraries one time only. Try to use as few dependencies as possible. You don't need a framework--components are achievable without vue and react etc. Server side rendering and VDom are really not needed for most projects. Think of Programming in JavaScript, CSS and F5 rather than Typescript and SASS as the equivalent of Marcus Aurelius' Stoicism.

JavaScript and CSS are to Stoicism as Typescript and SASS are to _____?

saint augustine?

Re: Writing JavaScript without a build system

#68

Post by jsmith99 » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 11:58 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #65

I wonder how hard it would be for Browsers to natively strip TypeScript syntax from the .ts files without checking and run them as .js

So no compile time checks and no runtime checks? What would the advantage of types be?

Re: Writing JavaScript without a build system

#69

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 12:05 AM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #65

I wonder how hard it would be for Browsers to natively strip TypeScript syntax from the .ts files without checking and run them as .js

[deleted]

Re: Writing JavaScript without a build system

#70

Post by swazzles0 » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 12:06 AM UTC

spankalee wrote: post #45

If anyone's looking for something like a framework that works with buildless workflows you might check out the project I work on: Lit ( https://lit.dev ) Lit gives you reactive components, declarative HTML templates, runtime encapsulated DOM and styles, interoperability with frameworks and HTML via web components, and a lot more - with no required build tools at all. We take great care to make sure our libraries are…

We used Lit for a project a while ago and I definitely vouch for it.

We were embedding the component into a legacy application and needed to use a build tool for older browser compatibility but it was a breeze to work with even with the extra complication our build setup added.

Getting back to basics and targeting what most modern browsers support out of the box is a huge plus.