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Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

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Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#84
post #35
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably it's for the same reasons that people gave him faulty technical information about Sarin gas in his debunked Syria story, or whatever weird details he was fed about the notion that the Osama bin Laden raid never happened, or the idea that USSOCOM is secretly controlled by a sect within the Vatican. Because he'll run with it, and people pay attention to him. People troll all the time on the Internet; why wou…

I'd still give Hersh the benefit of the doubt he's not just listening to some internet troll type person. There has to be some reputation at play here for him to take it seriously. The odds are high it's someone connected to the US or NATO govs. At least you'd assume so. As another commenter mentioned, he claimed he used to the same fact checkers used by The New Yorker.

You should never give any reporter the benefit of any doubt.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"decertified" and "rusting hunk of twisted metal at the bottom of the ocean" are two different things. Apparently the US government agrees, people like Victoria Nuland made a point to express their satisfaction that it's the latter now.

They are, but both qualify as “ended” just fine. Being happy about something’s destruction doesn’t mean you did it. I was happy when OBL got offed, but that doesn’t make me a Navy SEAL.

Depends what you mean by "ended", one of those is permanent.

I'm not saying being happy about it is proof they did it, I'm saying that it indicates that they are aware of a difference, and that it indirectly bolsters the argument for a motive.

I really doubt any of these points would be in dispute if all this circumstantial evidence was pointing at Russia.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#86
post #83

[flagged]

Yeah. Kind of a stretch to believe it's a coincidence that the very first time that a duplicate post has been made on HN it's this story, isn't it? Hmmmm.... makes you think. Like, deep deep only people interested in the truth kind of thinking.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#87
> I doubt Jens Stoltenberg was a US intelligence asset in his early teens.

Actually, it seems Stoltenberg was politically active during the late years of the Vietnam war, as a teenager:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/unlocked-young-78471711

that doesn't mean he necessarily "worked directly with US intelligence", but - he might have. He did go on to become a staunch NATO-supporter after all.

> mine clearing has long been a staple of the BALTOPS exercises. Implying that this is something that was added as cover for this operation is honestly laughable.

So, an extra R&D exercise in addition to everything that was already planned. Adding something that doesn't seem extraordinary is a good idea; adding an strange exercise would seem suspicious.

> Secondly, the people behind this highly secret operation that could not afford leaks had now somehow convinced the BALTOPS planners to change the parameters of their exercise

Add another exercise, supposedly similar to existing exercises.

> All of this either without informing them of why or by adding more people to the loop that could leak the plans.

On the contrary. If this had been an isolated operation, it would have been far more likely to raise suspicions. This seems like a way to minimize the disturbances.

Don't know about the ship business, it requires close scrutiny if one is not an expert on these matters and I'm certainly not. What I can say is that reporting based on anonymous sources, no material evidence, and little or no ability to otherwise verify is problematic - even if the US is the most likely suspect for blowing up Nordstream.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#89
post #18
post #17

If someone was feeding Hersh false information why would they reference the Alta class? Assuming it was some Intel op or some insider, did they just google some Norwegian navy ships that could plausibly fit the picture? Or did Hersh draw that connection himself? Hersh has been criticized for listening to cranks. Maybe some Intel officer (or adjacent gov/military worker) heard some rumours internally but there was com…

Presumably it's for the same reasons that people gave him faulty technical information about Sarin gas in his debunked Syria story, or whatever weird details he was fed about the notion that the Osama bin Laden raid never happened, or the idea that USSOCOM is secretly controlled by a sect within the Vatican. Because he'll run with it, and people pay attention to him. People troll all the time on the Internet; why wou…

> the notion that the Osama bin Laden raid never happened

The first sentence of Hersh's article reads:

"It’s been four years since a group of US Navy Seals assassinated Osama bin Laden in a night raid on a high-walled compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan."

His entire article then goes on to lay out a set of details for both the lead up and the execution of that raid, including the execution of bin Laden.

Those details conflict with the details officially given by the Obama administration-- both the details given in the days after the event (which Hersh cites) and the clarifications from the administration in the weeks after the event.

In any case, Obama's administration and Hersh both clearly agreed that there was a raid on the exact same location on the exact same evening, involving the exact same helicopters and Navy Seals, in which the exact same bin Laden was killed.

In short, what you wrote here is factually inaccurate.

> the idea that USSOCOM is secretly controlled by a sect within the Vatican

Never heard about that one. Where did he write about that idea?

Edit: decided to not use the word "tenuous" to describe the Obama admin's account in the days after the raid. What I remember Hersh discussing was the admin's initial claim that the Seals had shot him in self defense, which was later clarified/retracted by the administration.

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