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Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

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Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#71

Post by ceejayoz »

alienicecream wrote: post #66
tptacek wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we have zero information and zero clues about who did this and trying to reason axiomatically about it, as HN is wont to do, isn't going to get us any closer to the truth.

That's exactly what reasoning axiomatically does, it gets you closer to the truth. It gets you from "I don't know anything" to "these are the plausible theories". I wonder why you think that allowing people to speculate based on these "axioms" is so dangerous? If they're wrong, they're just wrong aren't they? As to clues, there are plenty. Biden proclaiming that he would put an end to Nord Stream 2 is a clue. That no…

> Biden proclaiming that he would put an end to Nord Stream 2 is a clue.

"We are going to put an end to poverty!"

Normal people: "OK, social programs."

Galaxy-brain people: "He's gonna genocide poor people! There's no other explanation!"

NordStream 2 was decertified shortly after the Russians invaded Ukraine, and NordStream 2 AG filed for bankruptcy about a week later. I'm very comfortable fitting that within "put an end to".

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#72

Post by alienicecream »

mannerheim wrote: post #67
alienicecream wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what reasoning axiomatically does, it gets you closer to the truth. It gets you from "I don't know anything" to "these are the plausible theories". I wonder why you think that allowing people to speculate based on these "axioms" is so dangerous? If they're wrong, they're just wrong aren't they? As to clues, there are plenty. Biden proclaiming that he would put an end to Nord Stream 2 is a clue. That no…

Which axiom gets you that it must have been a state actor who did it?

For me it's the one where governments with the most capable intelligence agencies in the world are quiet about who committed an act of international terrorism against an important piece of industrial infrastructure at the bottom of the ocean. One largely owned by Germany, a key NATO member. If this was some eco terrorism (imagining for a moment that they would have the means to procure the explosives and expertise to blow up a concrete encased pipeline at the bottom of the sea), it would present a serious risk for oil and gas infrastructure everywhere. It would not be taken lightly.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#73

Post by mannerheim »

alienicecream wrote: post #72
mannerheim wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which axiom gets you that it must have been a state actor who did it?

For me it's the one where governments with the most capable intelligence agencies in the world are quiet about who committed an act of international terrorism against an important piece of industrial infrastructure at the bottom of the ocean. One largely owned by Germany, a key NATO member. If this was some eco terrorism (imagining for a moment that they would have the means to procure the explosives and expertise to…

And Germany somehow knows who does this in your story and keeps quiet because...

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#74

Post by alienicecream »

ceejayoz wrote: post #71
alienicecream wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what reasoning axiomatically does, it gets you closer to the truth. It gets you from "I don't know anything" to "these are the plausible theories". I wonder why you think that allowing people to speculate based on these "axioms" is so dangerous? If they're wrong, they're just wrong aren't they? As to clues, there are plenty. Biden proclaiming that he would put an end to Nord Stream 2 is a clue. That no…

> Biden proclaiming that he would put an end to Nord Stream 2 is a clue. "We are going to put an end to poverty!" Normal people: "OK, social programs." Galaxy-brain people: "He's gonna genocide poor people! There's no other explanation!" NordStream 2 was decertified shortly after the Russians invaded Ukraine, and NordStream 2 AG filed for bankruptcy about a week later. I'm very comfortable fitting that within "put an…

"decertified" and "rusting hunk of twisted metal at the bottom of the ocean" are two different things. Apparently the US government agrees, people like Victoria Nuland made a point to express their satisfaction that it's the latter now.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#75

Post by Guthur »

They had means, motive and opportunity, and they even said that would do it. When pushed Biden said, "we'll put an end to it (Nord 2)".

And the number of hit pieces against the journalist in question is telling. Using wholly dubious paid for misinformation from Bellingcat.

But if you still think the US are innocent there is really not much more that can be said.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#76

Post by ceejayoz »

alienicecream wrote: post #74
ceejayoz wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Biden proclaiming that he would put an end to Nord Stream 2 is a clue. "We are going to put an end to poverty!" Normal people: "OK, social programs." Galaxy-brain people: "He's gonna genocide poor people! There's no other explanation!" NordStream 2 was decertified shortly after the Russians invaded Ukraine, and NordStream 2 AG filed for bankruptcy about a week later. I'm very comfortable fitting that within "put an…

"decertified" and "rusting hunk of twisted metal at the bottom of the ocean" are two different things. Apparently the US government agrees, people like Victoria Nuland made a point to express their satisfaction that it's the latter now.

They are, but both qualify as “ended” just fine.

Being happy about something’s destruction doesn’t mean you did it. I was happy when OBL got offed, but that doesn’t make me a Navy SEAL.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#77

Post by molopolo24 »

mcguire wrote: post #56
molopolo24 wrote: post #27

Let us consider that, even if he was fed false-information and his story discredited we can do limited conclusions from it. It might not affirm "the West blew up Nordstream" but it certainly does not affirm "the West NOT blow up Nordstream".

"We cannot disprove it. Therefore, it must be true." :-)

The reading comprehension has fallen to an abysmal level. Who said it is true?

It's just a possibility and in my opinion a very reasonable one. Does it advance the economic war against Russia? Check. Does it galvanize European support for US and not Russia? Check

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#79

Post by einpoklum »

> "and his recent factually incorrect takes on the Syria gas attacks and Skripal poisoning"

I don't know of anything incorrect in Hersh's take on (one of) the Syria gas attacks:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v35/n24/seymour-m.-hersh/who...

and I haven't read what he wrote on the Skripal affair.

Re: Blowing holes in Seymour Hersh’s pipe dream

#80

Post by [deleted] »

einpoklum wrote: post #79

> "and his recent factually incorrect takes on the Syria gas attacks and Skripal poisoning" I don't know of anything incorrect in Hersh's take on (one of) the Syria gas attacks: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v35/n24/seymour-m.-hersh/who... and I haven't read what he wrote on the Skripal affair.

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