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Email is permissioned marketing - you can opt out of it. Can't say the same for online advertising
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I share your sentiment, but at the same time what channels should be used for marketing? Exclusively social media ads? Snail Mail? When I think about it on the flipside for small business marketing it's really a tragic scenario of which ad mediums are not perceived as 'spammy'.
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Email is permissioned marketing - you can opt out of it. Can't say the same for online advertising
Sure but I have a dozen emails just today from "email marketers" that I never gave my information to and never opted into. Why should it require active effort on my part to avoid not receiving more of what I don't want?
Email marketer here. Open rates would have naturally trended from 20% to 60% naturally when iOS added Mail Privacy Protection (MPP) in the last two years, because Apple "opens" the emails itself before you do so that the sender cannot track the metadata associated with the pings to the image servers. Without a timeframe listed on this "trick" I would suspect that MPP was a great contributor to their increase in open…
This. Additionally, many enterprise email security providers doing automated phishing checks that click every link in the email and screen scrape the landing page to verify it's not an attack vector. If your market is the govt, schools, or large enterprises, this is absolutely juicing your CTRs. Vanity email metrics are incredibly broken right now - the only numbers that mean anything are frictioned conversions like…
But auto-clicks seem pretty easy to filter out of reporting data because they happen essentially instantaneously. Just drop clicks that happen within like 10 seconds of delivery.
Spamming and surveillance. What's not to like?
I feel that the most successful con the spamming industry managed to do was to rename themselves "marketing email" or "mailing". Could we just go back to "spam" which it is and has always be.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I share your sentiment, but at the same time what channels should be used for marketing? Exclusively social media ads? Snail Mail? When I think about it on the flipside for small business marketing it's really a tragic scenario of which ad mediums are not perceived as 'spammy'.
A reasonable and safe default is to use the same channel for sending me marketing information that I used to request it. Unsolicited marketing is never acceptable.
Should non-megacorp specialized services simply not exist? How should they get the word out? The approved channels you speak of are very expensive and highly competitive.
Off topic rant, but in my personal experience brands destroy more value/goodwill on their email marketing campaigns than any incremental sales they generate. Why even give me the option to not sign up for your email marketing list when I check out if you’re going to spam me anyway?
That's a measurably false statement. Email marketing is done so aggressively because it's so successful. Marketing is about conversion. It's not about making everyone love you. Having a 1M customers who like your brand and don't buy anything is less valuable than 10K who spend actual money. You may be equally shocked that direct mail (ie paper mail) still have extremely high conversion rates which is you still get so…
"How many women did you ask?"
"Twelve hundred, obviously I just need to be more aggressive in pursuing a larger number of women as it will make me more desirable."
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> I share your sentiment, but at the same time what channels should be used for marketing? None. Marketing is an objective blight on human society.
I know this is a popular belief on HN. But I assume you mean part of marketing that is paid advertising? Because you know, HN is a marketing site for companies in Y Combinator and Y Combinator itself. Every landing page you have ever visited is marketing. Every GitHub README.md is marketing. There's not a single business in the history of mankind that have made money without marketing. Because they wouldn't be allowe…
You know, the people directly responsible for making email suck... and the web... and search engines... phone calls... TV... the mail...
Huh. It's almost like the entire industry does a lot of making things suck.
Maybe if that wasn't the case I'd be amenable to considering some form of marketing as acceptable, but time and time again that industry has proven that being a good citizen is just not something they are willing to do.
Also, landing pages are definitely counted because in my experience you're lucky to even be able to tell what the fuck the product is from the landing page, so bullshit laden are they.
That README.md is often used for marketing in the landing-page sense is just evidence of what I said elsethread: That the psychological damage caused by marketing has embedded itself deeply in our culture and become self-perpetuating.
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Sure but I have a dozen emails just today from "email marketers" that I never gave my information to and never opted into. Why should it require active effort on my part to avoid not receiving more of what I don't want?
Email is a decentralized, protocol-based communications channel. Anyone can send you an email. Getting some spam does not mean that everyone who sends email must therefore be a spammer.