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Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

themarkup.org

121–130 of 243 posts

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#121
post #89

Here's a trick if you don't have a card/account at a grocery store: Just put in the number of (area code) 867-5309 The number will be registered.

Used this as my Kroger discount number for years. Someone else must have (with the same area code) because occasionally I'd get a big discount on gas, and there's no way I was spending enough to 'earn' that.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#122

Sometimes it feels ridiculous how much OPSEC I need to employ to buy anything at the grocery store. I walk or bike to the store to not reveal a license plate. All radios and sensors on my handset are turned off. I wear a mask to thwart facial recognition cameras. I pay cash.

Recently I’ve noticed multiple grocery store chains posting notices about how they no longer accept cash. A couple as of the new year.

hmmm, wonder if it's a preventing cash theft sort of thing with cashiers or something in that space.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#123
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... why?

Much like you will never understand why someone would go to these lengths I struggle to understand how someone _wouldn't_. I can't understand people whose threat model begins with "these places I'm okay with someone knowing things about me". If I read your email and then selected "metadata" I found important, walked into a very busy public square, and started shouting your secrets you'd be right to be uncomfortable.…

Consequences; when you have meaningful consequences around someone knowing what you purchased at the grocery store, you'll be justified in this behavior.

Until then, it's paranoia.

For my part, my "public" life has not once caused me negative consequences, and I've lived it this way for 34 years. Why would I live in fear of something that hasn't happened to me, anyone I know personally, is not recommended by any industry experts, is not presented as a risk factor by group responsible for my well being, etc.?

You need to prove that all of that extra effort is worth the degraded quality of life.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#124
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I pay cash. Can we, today, be sure that ATMs do not record serial numbers of the bank notes they dispense?

If they don't, that's the best startup idea I've heard on HN in a long time. I mean, it's evil and everything, but you could make a lot of money probably. Government contracts would probably pay out too.

10 bucks says Palantir saw the idea and are working on the pitch deck right now.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#125

Sometimes it feels ridiculous how much OPSEC I need to employ to buy anything at the grocery store. I walk or bike to the store to not reveal a license plate. All radios and sensors on my handset are turned off. I wear a mask to thwart facial recognition cameras. I pay cash.

IME at Safeway if you don't use a "club card" you end up paying nearly double for many items. Are there ways around this?

Not in my experience, in fact if you go to similar lengths to wipe cookies and hide your online identity using other additional methods, when I needed to locate a replacement AGM battery for the stop start tech in a car, the best prices I was quoted were £400-£500.

Then used an account with a known online history, ie cookies not wiped etc, search engines and online retailers came back with prices for £100.

So in my limited experience, going to the lengths I did to hide one's identity online will cost you 4x -5x the typical price.

In some respects, these companies have also put a price on the value of online privacy, which is handy to have.

As someone who has had a limited input into supermarket clubcards in the UK, there is a lot of personal data that can be gained from this information even if the supermarkets dont go to the lengths they could.

I dont think people would be happy with what could be extrapolated, like working out how rich a family or shopper is, health conditions before they even get detected by medical experts, what religion they are, have they been made redundant. There is just so much meta data we give away, its quite shocking really.

In the wrong hands, people could carry out their own stealth agenda's. Back in the 90's people were injecting chemicals or tampering with food which prompted food companies to start using foil seals and other methods to ensure food tampering is/was spotted easily. Things like tampering with baby food and liquids.

It also gives the police and security services via court orders, a ready made dataset in order to build any case against you. Its bad enough people can be psychologically profiled using streaming services like Netflix or Amazon or Youview and satellite services connected to the net, but I dont think people value privacy personally and they dont understand how they can be manipulated once some information is known about them.

At the same time, the state has never had access to so much data in order to better target populations to control or manipulate for their own purposes, like we see with election manipulations that saw Brexit and Trump get into power. I saw some of those social media adverts and it was extreme psychological manipulation and even the BBC were involved with some of that data collection on social media.

In my experience, some criminals will operate over decades, cultivating scams especially when large sums of money like asset acquisition is involved.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#126
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The clerks get penalized if they dont try to sign you up. They also have no insight or say in the use of your data. You might as well rant at a cloud about it.

Yes. Don't hassle the poor clerks. They aren't in charge of any of this stuff and certainly don't have the power to change it. Just say "no" and move on.

Better yet: find somewhere to shop that they don't do that.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#127

Sometimes it feels ridiculous how much OPSEC I need to employ to buy anything at the grocery store. I walk or bike to the store to not reveal a license plate. All radios and sensors on my handset are turned off. I wear a mask to thwart facial recognition cameras. I pay cash.

But if you block ads and third-party cookies, which I'm 146% you do with this mindset, that data collection is of no use either way.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#128
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I pay cash. Can we, today, be sure that ATMs do not record serial numbers of the bank notes they dispense?

If they don't, that's the best startup idea I've heard on HN in a long time. I mean, it's evil and everything, but you could make a lot of money probably. Government contracts would probably pay out too.

https://www.wheresgeorge.com/

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#129
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME at Safeway if you don't use a "club card" you end up paying nearly double for many items. Are there ways around this?

I deal with it by shopping at a reasonable store. Or, if there isn't one that prices reasonably, then I'll choose the expensive store that doesn't pull this sort of nonsense and is just expensive for everyone.

I have a store like this nearby and try to give them as much of my business as I can. It's refreshing: no membership rewards nonsense, no unclear or deceptive volume sale pricing, high-quality produce and deli, everything is exceptionally clean, well kept, and efficient. The employees by all accounts and indications mostly really enjoy working there (not all teenagers enjoy it), and in four decades of shopping there I've never had a bad customer experience that wasn't caused by another customer.

It does cost a bit more, but some of that is inherent because they generally carry stuff that is genuinely better. Despite that, some products are still very competitively priced, and the administrative and cognitive overhead of shopping there is significantly lower.

Thus far they've kept the large chain Orwellian dystopia entirely at bay. My shopping behavior doesn't make much of an individual difference to society but it's worth a premium to get a better product and to not feel like I'm contributing to The Great Race to the Bottom of Everything™ when I shop there.

Re: Forget Milk and Eggs: Supermarkets Are Having a Fire Sale on Data About You

#130
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fine, but it's not really about tracking you , it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant. (Yes, having your real address to mail flyers is a bonus but not the end goal.) The only viable solution that comes to mind is to shop at places that don't perform this sort of tracking/loyalty card/etc. and continue to pay in cash. The only stores around me that fit this bil…

> his is fine, but it's not really about tracking you, it's about tracking the habits of shoppers in aggregate, of which you are a participant. (Yes, having your real address to mail flyers is a bonus but not the end goal.) Like hell it is. This is an article about Target back in 2012, that identified a pregnant underage girl purely from her purchasing record. 11 years ago. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/20…

>Walmart did similar as well.

Yep, I get emails about walmart purchases when I rarely go there, because I once made an account to order something online for a discount. I'm not even using the same cards anymore and they still know its me.

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