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Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

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Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, but not really the issue... thats why there is an editing process. If an org has a proper editing process then a lot of that gets accounted for. Because... Editors couldn't possibly have motives that similarly contain bias, corruption, out other such common frailties of the human condition?

My point is that you do not know how the editorial workflow works. You may not even be aware there is one. There is. It usually accounts for a lot of this. Not perfect, most systems are not - but it goes a long way to providing better reporting. Think of it from a coding point of view. Many people think that some developers write code directly on production, to their personal style, and thats it. That certainly happe…

> Its been known for production code to have issues, but generally after going through a process most are prevented then if the developer was able to merge in code without review

One more point.

Companies never ever have evil anti user dark patterns enter production because of code reviews, do they?

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#602

This is really simple. Media are now in the service of advertisers. Or more specifically of people who are willing to spend money to target particular people. For example, the NYT targets the wealthy, which is why they frequently have stories about "how much will $900,000 buy in a home"? By targeting the wealthy, the NYT and other media present a view of the world that is very much at odds with the way many if not mo…

Not really, it's clear demand for Christian stuff in America is huge. Yet the media avoids this like crazy. One of the biggest movies of all time is "The passion of the christ" there.Yet most media in America is highly liberal and arguably anti-christian. It's not about the money clearly, its not about the money. American Corporations have undergone idealogical capture. There is no other reason Disney risked and lost…

Disney also employs a lot of LGBTQ employees who were quite understandably really pissed at DeSantis. There's a line to be toed between "public liberal good boy points" for PR and the benefits of self governance, and I think Disney made a decent compromise.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#603
post #295

There are literal mountains of sociological studies on how (state and corporate) media have been in service of the powers that be, for decades, and how exactly this works. With a mountain of examples. So, for sociologists, this feels like "wow, it only took half a century to trickle through." Though of course this is the wrong reaction; it has always trickled through. Only that, in the past, it took a few years or de…

This is such a black and white spin. First: I don't know which sociological studies you refer to, but most of it is politically colored arm chair philosophy. These insights didn't come from sociology, but from political movements. Second: there's a difference not providing a full picture of a war or a new economic policy, and outright lying. I expect news organizations to provide me with the basic info: incomplete, b…

They're lying though, that's the problem. Not 100% lying, but ignoring facts that contradict the narrative they have ongoing with their readership (so they don't look like they were wrong), and picking out those that contribute to their fantasy.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I've just seen first hand (1) the real information on the battlefield (2) the public affair office's briefing to medias, which is factual although omits sensitive things and (3) the media's subsequent reporting which largely ignores what the PAO said and goes on with their made up interpretation. It's frankly sickening. They're writing fantasy.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#604
post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying unfriend as in real life? I've only heard that term referring to social media, which I don't see as the same thing as real friendship. Do you pay taxes to your government? There's a good chance you're funding some evil shit (among good things as well obviously). Are you part of a church? Some of the people involved with that church probably do or have historically done some pretty evil shit. I think li…

Yes, unfriended in real life. Your examples are so many degrees removed that I do not think they are apposite. For example, people who supported Trump did so with full knowledge of his attitude towards immigrants, asylum seekers, etc., his rhetoric about building the wall (which many of his supporters cited specifically as their reason for supporting him), his "birtherism" re Obama, etc. Thus, they can much more stro…

So indirection washes away the evil? Is complacent support that much better than affirmative support?

Compare actively supporting "birtherism" to passively supporting blowing up brown kids with drones.

I think you're better off looking for common ground with the people around you, rather than putting up barriers based on which politician panders better to them.

Edit: Case in point: we disagree here. I don't hate you for it, I'd hope you don't hate me, and I think this is a fine conversation to have. The alternative is we could each say fuck you and go our separate ways, and the world is a slightly worse place for it.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#605
post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize Hilary lost election using that same argument? Labeling your political opponents as “trash” turns off a lot of people.

Sometimes spades need to be labeled as such.

You're a jaded, delusional, and bitter redditor.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a refutation. If the markets for christian stuff and are sufficiently disjoint then it can and probably is perfectly rational to choose the bigger pie rather than trying to compete for the Christian market. You see "ideological capture," other see the market at work. Somehow I also doubt passing laws in Florida to force Disney to make Mickey Mouse less woke will have the intended effects but it probably fe…

It's idealogical capture. Example: Hallmark doubles down on LGBT content, president splits to create the Great American Channel with pro-christian and anti-lgbt content. The GAC channel is one of the channels with the fastest increase in subscribers. This is a case study that several researchers we have are actively investigating as we look to buy ads on that network.

I don't even understand, if the guy was able to leave and create a new channel to serve this audience how is that an example of what you call ideological capture.

An important part of business is targeting your offering to the intended market -- it sounds like the intended market for Hallmark is not the same as the intended market for Great American Channel. If Hallmark content is so objectionable to its viewership that they lose all their viewers to Great American Channel, surely Hallmark will pivot, or go out of business.

Or do you think Ron Desantis has to pass a law forcing Hallmark to make the kind of content which the Great America Channel shows? Is that your solution here, a command economy for basic cable?

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think those conspiracies are what are driving this kind of distrust. In my experience, the most common belief on that end is simply that the reporting is meant to keep people too busy bickering over meaningless issues (in the sense that the bickering itself won't accomplish anything of substance) to prevent them from actually organizing and acting against real problems which would be inconvenient for those wh…

But “meant to” by whom? The tens of thousands of reporters, mostly young liberal arts majors? It’s the “meant to” that makes it a conspiracy theory. Tell me that news is unhealthy, or that each individual actor has self interest in promoting some agenda, and I think it’s an interesting topic. But as soon as there is a person or group out there secretly “meaning for” some result from the actions of tens of thousands o…

> But as soon as there is a person or group out there secretly “meaning for” some result from the actions of tens of thousands of people, that’s by definition a conspiracy.

There are many interest groups pushing to influence mass behavior in many kinds of ways. Some do so transparently, others less so.

We've overloaded "conspiracy" to mean at least two different things: the traditional definition of secret plotting to do bad things and a more modern derogatory connotation involving far-fetched conspiracies like politicians being lizard people.

Something can be a conspiracy and also be true and it is reasonable to investigate the extent to which reporting is influenced by different interests.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#608
post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taibbi is publishing a ton on the links between government agencies and Twitter right now, by doing the work of poring through thousands of emails. He's been doing it for months. His detractors are mostly doing far less journalism than him.

Kinda seems like he’s more doing PR for musk than journalism. He’s posting stories aligning with musk’s interests on musk’s platform using data supplied by musk. I watched a debate panel with several journalists who were part of the Twitter files and they claimed they had full access to everything because an engineer sat in the room with them and ran queries for them. They seemed to believe that the database couldn’t…

He is posting emails and communications that have literally nothing to do with Musk. They are comms between people who used to work at Twitter and politicians. How is that doing PR for Musk? I don't understand.

Your pre-filtered database (conspiracy) theory doesn't really seem like the simplest explanation.

You are right though that there is a certain level of trust here in Taibbi's reporting and fact checking.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#609

There are literal mountains of sociological studies on how (state and corporate) media have been in service of the powers that be, for decades, and how exactly this works. With a mountain of examples. So, for sociologists, this feels like "wow, it only took half a century to trickle through." Though of course this is the wrong reaction; it has always trickled through. Only that, in the past, it took a few years or de…

> So, for sociologists, this feels like "wow, it only took half a century to trickle through."

But most sociologists are totally in on the game. It used to be that the mainstream media narrative was opposite of what the sociologists preferred people to believe, and at the time you had academics talk about Manufactured Consent, and False Consciousness etc. These days, the press is more aligned with academics, so they prefer to keep it shush.

Here is an explicit example, published just a few weeks ago:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0192513X2211509...

> The Myth of Low-Income Black Fathers’ Absence From the Lives of Adolescents

From the abstract:

> Low-income Black fathers have been portrayed in the media and in research as uninvolved and disengaged from their children. The current study uses data from the Fragile Families and Child Wellbeing study (N = 2578) to examine adolescents’ reports of relationships and interaction with their biological fathers. The results showed there were no significant differences among Black, Hispanic, non-Hispanic White, and Other fathers for adolescents’ perceptions of closeness or interaction with fathers.

Authors “debunk” the “myth” of lack of involvement of low income black fathers from lives of their children. Anyone who has knowledge about basic statistical facts of low income black society in US will immediately be wondering how they could possibly show the lack of involvement of black fathers is a myth, when fully 80% of black children are born to unmarried mothers.

The answer is rather shocking: the authors simply ignore the children, whose fathers are completely uninvolved, and only consider children with at least minimally involved fathers.

Imagine reading a paper which “debunks” a “myth” of lack of involvement of women in corporate boards or C-level position, which simply excludes companies that have zero women on boards or as C-level officers from consideration. It would be hard to view it as anything other than deliberate deception. This sort of ignoring of obvious factors is, however, extremely common in published sociology research, and the academic community is extremely good at pretending to not notice deliberately lousy scholarship, when it aligns well with political opinions of 90% sociologists, and attacks anyone who tries to bring attention to it.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#610
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10693146/cnn-settles-nick-sand...

>CNN settles $275million suit from MAGA hat-wearing Covington Catholic student after stand-off vid

I'll always remember this moment as a statement of fact that news organizations deliberately mislead us.

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