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Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

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Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#231

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

clouddrover wrote: post #221
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment when you will get off the supercharger network with your tesla you are in the same crap as the rest of the BEV owners. >on-the-road charging with Elli membership Why should I buy some stupid membership so I can pay monthly fee + charging fee? I am not buying memberships for taking gas either.

> The moment when you will get off the supercharger network with your tesla There are 21 Tesla charging sites in Finland and 14 of them are now open to all EVs. So you could be making use of two thirds of Tesla's Finnish charging sites with your Skoda Enyaq right now.

Lol on 14 open superchargers. Tried Tesla app. It told me to insert VIN of my car, to tell me that this is not Tesla VIN. Well no shit Sherlock. So even if I would like to charge (and pay) on superchargers, I can't.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#232

Post by clouddrover »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #231
clouddrover wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The moment when you will get off the supercharger network with your tesla There are 21 Tesla charging sites in Finland and 14 of them are now open to all EVs. So you could be making use of two thirds of Tesla's Finnish charging sites with your Skoda Enyaq right now.

Lol on 14 open superchargers. Tried Tesla app. It told me to insert VIN of my car, to tell me that this is not Tesla VIN. Well no shit Sherlock. So even if I would like to charge (and pay) on superchargers, I can't.

Everyone else is managing to. Maybe you should try again.

It just seems like a lot of your problems are self-inflicted. You could be doing things easier.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#233

Post by genocidicbunny »

lmm wrote: post #224
genocidicbunny wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole point of suggesting a route planner is to reduce the effort on their part. How would having to use a route planner be less effort than not having to use one at all? With my ICE car, I very rarely have to concern myself with being able to find a gas station in range. I also very rarely would need to use any sort of route planning software to find a gas station in range. > Ways to mitigate the downsides are…

> How would having to use a route planner be less effort than not having to use one at all? It's not, it's less effort than whatever they were doing to find charging stations before. > What I was referring to was the way you seemed to offer a dismissive solution to the problem that the GP described. I didn't offer it, but I don't see anything dismissive about it. It looked like a genuine effort to help someone mitiga…

> It's not, it's less effort than whatever they were doing to find charging stations before.

I understood the GP's comment to also be a commentary on the difference between what they had to deal with when driving an EV and how that was different than their previous experiences with ICE/Hybrids.

> I didn't offer it

Oops, that is my mistake indeed.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#234

Post by genocidicbunny »

clouddrover wrote: post #223
genocidicbunny wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole point of suggesting a route planner is to reduce the effort on their part. How would having to use a route planner be less effort than not having to use one at all? With my ICE car, I very rarely have to concern myself with being able to find a gas station in range. I also very rarely would need to use any sort of route planning software to find a gas station in range. > Ways to mitigate the downsides are…

I don't know what you're talking about anymore. If you're too scared to own an EV, if the EV chargers frighten you, if you find the leading edge too edgy, if the adoption is too early for you, then the solution in your case is simple: don't buy an EV. In the meantime, EV owners can use A Better Routeplanner and configure it to prioritise their preferred charging networks (via Settings -> Charging Networks -> Network…

> If you're too scared to own an EV, if the EV chargers frighten you, if you find the leading edge too edgy, if the adoption is too early for you, then the solution in your case is simple: don't buy an EV.

Which is exactly what I have done. Driving an EV is great, owning one in my situation would introduce more problems than it solves. Many of the factors that affect this decision for me are very common and likely apply to a large fraction of the population.

> So, in TheLoafOfBread's case, if he prefers to use let's say Ionity, Tesla, BP, and FastNed with his Skoda Enyaq he can add them to the network preferences in ABRP.

I understood the complaint to be partially that they would prefer to not have to deal with any of that at all, or at least that it could and should be far far simpler.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#235

Post by clouddrover »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #234
clouddrover wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you're talking about anymore. If you're too scared to own an EV, if the EV chargers frighten you, if you find the leading edge too edgy, if the adoption is too early for you, then the solution in your case is simple: don't buy an EV. In the meantime, EV owners can use A Better Routeplanner and configure it to prioritise their preferred charging networks (via Settings -> Charging Networks -> Network…

> If you're too scared to own an EV, if the EV chargers frighten you, if you find the leading edge too edgy, if the adoption is too early for you, then the solution in your case is simple: don't buy an EV. Which is exactly what I have done. Driving an EV is great, owning one in my situation would introduce more problems than it solves. Many of the factors that affect this decision for me are very common and likely ap…

> or at least that it could and should be far far simpler.

It is far, far simpler. A Better Routeplanner will make it simpler for TheLoafOfBread.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#236

Post by genocidicbunny »

clouddrover wrote: post #235
genocidicbunny wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're too scared to own an EV, if the EV chargers frighten you, if you find the leading edge too edgy, if the adoption is too early for you, then the solution in your case is simple: don't buy an EV. Which is exactly what I have done. Driving an EV is great, owning one in my situation would introduce more problems than it solves. Many of the factors that affect this decision for me are very common and likely ap…

> or at least that it could and should be far far simpler. It is far, far simpler. A Better Routeplanner will make it simpler for TheLoafOfBread.

Uh, what about all the other issues they raised? About cost? About charging time? About charger compatibility? About the inability to effectively charge at home? The clunky app-based payment methods?

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#237

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

clouddrover wrote: post #232
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol on 14 open superchargers. Tried Tesla app. It told me to insert VIN of my car, to tell me that this is not Tesla VIN. Well no shit Sherlock. So even if I would like to charge (and pay) on superchargers, I can't.

Everyone else is managing to. Maybe you should try again. It just seems like a lot of your problems are self-inflicted. You could be doing things easier.

Or, hear me out, there could be NFC payment terminal instead of registering on ANOTHER STUPID APPLICATION

Even public transportation trams and buses in Eastern Europe have NFC terminals on board to buy tickets. Why is it so hard for a damn charger in Western Europe to have one?

https://www.dpp.cz/en/fares/cashless-payment-of-fare

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#238

Post by starkd »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #226
starkd wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going all in on EV's is also a very big gamble. Sure, there is probably a profitable segment in the market, but with so many other car companies going all-in, Toyota could be in a good position by having a wider line-up of products. There is something very strange about the herd mentality around EV's. As if we are going to fix the environment if only everybody gets an EV for ALL use cases.

I think the misguided gamble at this point is hoping/expecting the EV market to implode and stop rapidly overtaking and outgrowing everything else. That clearly is not happening or going to happen. This is not about herd mentality but about not ignoring very real and tangible trends in the market that are starting to affect Toyota's core business in very real ways. Mumbling about hydrogen and vaguely asserting there…

Toyota does produces EVs. But just because the EV market share is growing does not mean it is going to completely displace everything else. In a competitive marketplace, consumer choice forces the improvement of EVs in such a way that they are not a merely substandard alternatives. We do not know where research is heading or what the true limits are to battery improvements. It takes the consumer marketplace to serve as an adequate test bed for a quality product.

EV's are still inferior products for many users. EV Advocates like to point to fast acceleration as somehow proof they are superior. But what they leave out is that every time you accelerate you see the charge capacity noticeably drop to significant degree. On extended trips, EV drivers will be making conscious efforts to engage in slower more moderate driving. Some people are fine with it, but the fact that many choose to go back to ICE vehicles should not be ignored.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#239

Post by clouddrover »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #236
clouddrover wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or at least that it could and should be far far simpler. It is far, far simpler. A Better Routeplanner will make it simpler for TheLoafOfBread.

Uh, what about all the other issues they raised? About cost? About charging time? About charger compatibility? About the inability to effectively charge at home? The clunky app-based payment methods?

TheLoafOfBread will have a better time using better charging networks, the ones he will set up as his preferred charging providers in A Better Routeplanner.

Instead of talking in circles, just try A Better Routeplanner.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#240

Post by clouddrover »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #237
clouddrover wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone else is managing to. Maybe you should try again. It just seems like a lot of your problems are self-inflicted. You could be doing things easier.

Or, hear me out, there could be NFC payment terminal instead of registering on ANOTHER STUPID APPLICATION Even public transportation trams and buses in Eastern Europe have NFC terminals on board to buy tickets. Why is it so hard for a damn charger in Western Europe to have one? https://www.dpp.cz/en/fares/cashless-payment-of-fare

So you don't actually want any practical solutions. You just want to have a whinge and a moan.

Instead of wishing for what isn't, you could be doing a lot better with what is.

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