Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

bigthink.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 480 posts

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#411

Post by wonderwonder »

breadbreadbread wrote: post #404
wonderwonder wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyday on the internet I see trans people threatened, disrespected, or legislated out of existence" Legislation in the US has actually made trans people vanish or are we using large amounts of hyperbole? People have been saying mean things about other groups for millennia, as long as its just words, its fine. I'm a jew, I see the neo nazi groups with banners or Kanye ranting and just laugh. Who cares? Now if they…

> Trans people are for some reason the only large visible group yelling that speech is violence and saying mean things about them should be illegal. this in an incredibly disingenuous take. Who is trying to make saying antitrans things should be illegal? last i checked trans people were still trying to access affirming medical care and not be attacked in the streets. If you are referring to like pronouns/names, I sti…

"Who is trying to make saying antitrans things should be illegal?"

Come on, did you read the post I was responding to? My post was a response to another post. Op appeared to want it to be made illegal. Calling speech violence implies that certain speech should be illegal as inflicting violence on others is illegal.

"Every minority group fighting for their rights has been told this" The recent movement against trans is wholly due to the movements attempt to bring kids into it. Keep it out of schools and respect parental rights and I guarantee the focus on this goes away.

The only reason the focus is on drag queens is because kids are being taken to highly sexualized shows. Stop doing that and no one cares about drag queens anymore.

NSFW

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1603512564628987922?...

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#412

Post by danans »

mjfl wrote: post #265
danans wrote: post #185

> Consider these statements: > Jesus is not the son of God. All nonbelievers are evil and going to hell. Pornography is morally acceptable. Women should be forced to wear hijabs. American veterans who fought in Iraq are war criminals. The detainees at Guantánamo Bay deserved to be tortured. Capitalism is inherently exploitative, and all wealthy people are morally compromised. Communism is an evil, totalitarian ideolo…

No. All speech should be free.

Thanks for sharing

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#413

Post by mikrotikker »

garbagecoder wrote: post #23
jrm4 wrote: post #9

Lawyer here, and this definitely strikes me as one of a surprising number topics in which, the law has for some time, already a very effective and useful way to get at this concept. Sure, speech can be harmful and hurtful, to the point that someone should get punished for it. But the law has generally done very good job of reminding us that this tends to be a VERY NARROW possibility, i.e. the harm has to be very spec…

Most people don't realize this and they also don't realize that equal opportunity laws also apply to white, male, christians, etc.

Yes that is why the civil rights law in California was almost repealed last year, they wanted to make it legal to discriminate against white people. Such moronic thinking does not consider the future consequences. Law by teenagers.

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#414

Post by anon7725 »

Zetice wrote: post #127

Sigh, every single time this comes up, people gloss over the part of freedom of speech that involves free association. I’m free to say, “i hate ”, and you’re free to refuse to associate with me as a result of that. It’s so simple. The government can’t, but you can. As long as we all agree with that, then yeah freedom of speech is great, you just don’t get to stop applying it when you feel satisfied.

I suppose you’d be in favor of the McCarthy era Hollywood blacklist of suspected Communists, then?

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#415

Post by mikrotikker »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #226
baron816 wrote: post #194

The thing is, people on the far left and the far right DON’T want a liberal society. They want authoritarianism. They want control to suppress their adversaries.

In the context of the US, everything I’ve seen suggests the right seeks authoritarianism more than the left does, doing things like getting books they don’t agree with banned, working to eliminate the votes of those not aligned with them, and weakening the barrier between church and state.

You're not paying much attention to current events are you. You have a massive blind spot.

May I recommend you check out ground.news and use the bias checker to see what you're missing out on?

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#416

Post by tomjen3 »

vannevar wrote: post #75
tomjen3 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While there is indeed no right to not be offended, there is also no right to be listened to, and no right to artificially amplify your speech on someone else's dime When you prevent somebody from being on a platform, you also prevent others from hearing what that person has to say. As for amplification, it is not amplification to show me your tweets with #stabledifussion when that is what I search for - it is the en…

It absolutely is amplification---without Twitter, there would be no tweet to search for. And never forget, the actual point of Twitter is to deliver value to its shareholders.

Twitter is now a private company, but that is besides the point, as it would only provide value to whomever owns it people use it, and they only do that if they can get access to what they value.

And no, to be amplification, Twitter would have to boost certain tweets artificially. It is very unartificial when I get results for searching. Otherwise it is also boosting if I use the municipal library to checkout a book, or buy it on Amazon, at which point amplification is meaningless.

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#417

Post by mikrotikker »

breadbreadbread wrote: post #144

I think this article comes very close to saying "don't let words affect you", which is fundamentally impossible to ask anyone to do and taken to it's logical conclusion I should also not absorb anything in the article. I also think this article also ignores the fact that hateful people often use the language of free speech to justify their own behavior and to punish their critics. Everyday on the internet I see trans…

Respect is earned, not given.

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#418

Post by mikrotikker »

breadbreadbread wrote: post #404
wonderwonder wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyday on the internet I see trans people threatened, disrespected, or legislated out of existence" Legislation in the US has actually made trans people vanish or are we using large amounts of hyperbole? People have been saying mean things about other groups for millennia, as long as its just words, its fine. I'm a jew, I see the neo nazi groups with banners or Kanye ranting and just laugh. Who cares? Now if they…

> Trans people are for some reason the only large visible group yelling that speech is violence and saying mean things about them should be illegal. this in an incredibly disingenuous take. Who is trying to make saying antitrans things should be illegal? last i checked trans people were still trying to access affirming medical care and not be attacked in the streets. If you are referring to like pronouns/names, I sti…

> Every minority group fighting for their rights has been told this

Because equal rights are the goal, not special treatment.

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#419

Post by mikrotikker »

cmh89 wrote: post #348
wonderwonder wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are always consequences to freedom of ideas. Some good, some bad. The suppression of speech and ideas leads to a dictatorship. I think people that attack others verbally for who or what they are are bad people. I just think that the consequences of suppression of speech are worse. It's all good when the leaders we like are in power and stifle the speech of those we disagree with. It's not so fun when the pendul…

>The suppression of speech and ideas leads to a dictatorship. That's not true. Nazi ideology is banned in Germany, and they are a far healthier democracy than the United States. > I just think that the consequences of suppression of speech are worse. So if a group of people were plotting to kill you, you'd only want the State (i.e. the police) to step in after they had gone through with their plot? > Sometimes. Are y…

The USA is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy.

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#420

Post by mikrotikker »

keerthiko wrote: post #286
wonderwonder wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyday on the internet I see trans people threatened, disrespected, or legislated out of existence" Legislation in the US has actually made trans people vanish or are we using large amounts of hyperbole? People have been saying mean things about other groups for millennia, as long as its just words, its fine. I'm a jew, I see the neo nazi groups with banners or Kanye ranting and just laugh. Who cares? Now if they…

Surely you would feel very differently if you were born in a slightly different time in the not-so-distant past. How do you imagine the first "actual Nazis" came to the position of power where they could slaughter thousands of your community with impunity for nearly a generation? How do you imagine it couldn't happen again, if not in your lifetime, at some point in humanity's timeline? If not regarding Jews, regardin…

> Do you really think it would be avoided simply by more people taking "don't let words affect you" to heart [ * ]?

Yes because the Nazis were butthurt bitches and used their perceived victimisation as an excuse to met out horrible torture, violence and dehumanisation.

Hitler tried to have a guy in Italy bought to heel for making his dog do a Nazi salute FFS.

Post reply on HN