Nicola Sturgeon to resign as Scotland's first minister • Hacker News Board

Re: Nicola Sturgeon to resign as Scotland's first minister

#41

Post by thesaintlives » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 12:11 AM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #28

dbspin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theresa May is certainly the exception on that list. She's widely regarded (next to Liz Truss) as one of the most ineffectual Prime Ministers of the last fifty years.

Merkel made very serious strategic mistakes that have cost Germany and Europe a lot and are still costing a lot. Russia, energy policy, open door policy on immigrants (which has played a part in precipitating Brexit), she got pretty much every important, strategic issue wrong.

Was Merkel responsible for the movement of refugees within europe? I don't think it is that simple. The structure of power within Germany is also such that she simply was not able to allow or disallow the moevement of refugees into Germany...

Re: Nicola Sturgeon to resign as Scotland's first minister

#42

Post by dbspin » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 12:29 AM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #14

dbspin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theresa May is certainly the exception on that list. She's widely regarded (next to Liz Truss) as one of the most ineffectual Prime Ministers of the last fifty years.

As terrible as May was, it does seem that a lot of the derision toward her is rooted in either scapegoating (from the Conservative side) or - more commonly - misogyny (from all sides). She certainly was not competent, and did a lot of damage, but she doesn't compare to the incompetence of either her predecessor or successor. It's also worth noting that she was handed a poison chalice: the Brexit mandate, which she ha…

I think the disdain for her was less misogyny (the ghost of Margaret Thatcher still excites the conservatives in a way only directly comparable to the Republican worship of Regan) and more her utter unlikability.

A politician can be unlikable and effective, or likeable and ineffective. Once in a very great while they combine efficacy and electability. But to combine such utter ineffectuality with a total lack of charisma is to ensure destain.

But I agree, she didn't create the environment that led to Brexit like Cameron, nor did she help push it through like Johnson. Whatever her legacy, it's as nothing next to theirs.

Re: Nicola Sturgeon to resign as Scotland's first minister

#43

Post by dbspin » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 12:33 AM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #28

dbspin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theresa May is certainly the exception on that list. She's widely regarded (next to Liz Truss) as one of the most ineffectual Prime Ministers of the last fifty years.

Merkel made very serious strategic mistakes that have cost Germany and Europe a lot and are still costing a lot. Russia, energy policy, open door policy on immigrants (which has played a part in precipitating Brexit), she got pretty much every important, strategic issue wrong.

The Syrian migrant crisis was deliberately created by Putin to damage the European project. So... No. What Merkel did was morally necessary. Brexit was the culmination of literally decades of Tory 'Eurosceptic' scare mongering. I grew up listening to it daily on every British news programme. Topped off by a very British style of xenophobia that has feared the 'influx' of 'foreigners' since at least the time of Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech. The British working class and lower middle class, especially outside of London, have been crushed economically since the Winter of Discontent. They've been taught to blame outsiders for their economic precarity. The same narrative is now repeating in Ireland. It's just as untrue there...

In terms of energy it's more ambiguous, certainly the move away from nuclear was short term a bad call. Long term that's a big discussion involving externalities like decommissioning. More topically, the energy crisis last Winter wasn't a result of Russian brinkmanship but the American destruction of Nord Stream. Hard to blame Merkel for not having anticipated the war.

Re: Nicola Sturgeon to resign as Scotland's first minister

#44

Post by fidgewidge » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 6:52 AM UTC

sentinalien wrote: post #37

fidgewidge wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sturgeon was competent at enforcing party unity and winning Scottish elections. But in terms of actually achieving things for Scotland, both her and the SNP have failed. It's a one issue party so in terms of independence: - Support for independence is now lower than when she took the reigns. That by itself must count as failure on the SNP's own terms. - Lost the "once in a generation" referendum and then refused to a…

Do you have any examples of the grotesquely racist anti-English rhetoric encouraged by Sturgeon?

This page has dozens:

https://medium.com/@johnkelly_17973/anti-english-rhetoric-am...

Pay attention to the part about police reports:

> anti English rhetoric culminating in abuse, vandalism and physical assault are now common place in Scotland and happen daily (15 per day) according to Scottish police statistics.

Re: Nicola Sturgeon to resign as Scotland's first minister

#45

Post by fidgewidge » Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 7:08 AM UTC

mamonster wrote: post #3

mellosouls wrote: post #2

As an Englishman, I've been impressed with how mature and competent the Scottish leaders have seemed in comparison with their English counterparts; I don't know if it's a systemic or cultural thing (or just my imagination), but as a representative of that tendency I'm sad to see her go.

To be honest, in comparison to the last 5 years of the Tory part, Sturgeon is quite competent. The only proper scandal I remember is the Salmond case, and then in terms of being incompetent the only thing which is undisputable is how badly she has handled the Scottish drug policy/crisis.

You don't remember any except the salmond case because the left wing media treat the SNP very softly. There were lots of scandals during her time, e.g. the ferries disaster, the current gender self id / rapist case, the missing 660k, her regular faked inability to recall critical facts when questioned about things, breaking her own mask mandate, threatening to prosecute MSPs if they spoke against Sturgeon, the attempt to take complete power over from the Scottish Parliament via a pandemic law etc.