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Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

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11–20 of 480 posts

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#11
> few liberal-minded commentators seemed eager to say Rushdie was entirely without fault

This does not match my recollection. As I recall things, Rushdie was vigorously defended by the left, which at the time quite liked the idea of freedom of speech. At least in the UK, can't speak for anywhere else.

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#12
post #4

Although violent speech may seem hard to swallow, the alternative of censorship has been shown throughout history to be far more detrimental. It seems that the younger generation has not fully understood this fact, but hopefully they will come to understand it through the lessons of others, rather than through their own experiences.

Has it? I see censorship as being extremely successful nowadays. It seems to keep the world together nowadays. Imagine we’d publish everything we know, many people would oppose.

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#14

People who equate speech with violence have generally never known physical violence. I've always held that position firmly. The trouble is, people are turning out to be a lot more programmable than I thought they (we) were. You could almost say that we're becoming more like machines at the same time that machines are becoming more like us. To the extent that's true, the part of the old saying that goes "... but words…

I don't know if this is true all the time. I think knowingly sending rape threats to rape victims is pretty violent behavior. I think knowingly trying to trigger someone into an eating disorder relapse or coercing someone into suicide are heinous things that fall into violence. I think there is a line where speech can be violent or said with the intent to harm someone the same as a punch is.

I think knowingly sending rape threats to rape victims is pretty violent behavior

Compared to the actual act of rape? No. That kind of thinking just devalues the victim.

That said, specific threats aren't normally examples of protected speech. Extreme cases make bad law.

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#15
post #7

I don't think that most of the people who equate hate speech with violence are literally requesting assualt charges be brought. They are calling for boycotts and de-platforming, both of which fall well within the bounds of the "marketplace of ideas." While there is indeed no right to not be offended, there is also no right to be listened to, and no right to artificially amplify your speech on someone else's dime. We…

They may not be requesting assault charges, but they may be requesting pain and suffering compensation, or using "unkind" comments as leverage in a divorce.

Edit: Why disagree?

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#16
post #4

Although violent speech may seem hard to swallow, the alternative of censorship has been shown throughout history to be far more detrimental. It seems that the younger generation has not fully understood this fact, but hopefully they will come to understand it through the lessons of others, rather than through their own experiences.

History has shown us repeatedly - the next generation will only learn when the heel of the boot they cheer for is crushing their own throats.

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#17
In 2023 that ‘speech’ could well be spam generated by ChatGPT. ‘Free speech’ isn’t the right model to describe coordinated inauthentic communications, spam, agenda spamming, disinformation, etc. In case where capacity to receive messages is limited, communications can be vandalism if not violence.

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is true all the time. I think knowingly sending rape threats to rape victims is pretty violent behavior. I think knowingly trying to trigger someone into an eating disorder relapse or coercing someone into suicide are heinous things that fall into violence. I think there is a line where speech can be violent or said with the intent to harm someone the same as a punch is.

I think knowingly sending rape threats to rape victims is pretty violent behavior Compared to the actual act of rape? No. That kind of thinking just devalues the victim. That said, specific threats aren't normally examples of protected speech. Extreme cases make bad law.

[dead]

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#19

People who equate speech with violence have generally never known physical violence. I've always held that position firmly. The trouble is, people are turning out to be a lot more programmable than I thought they (we) were. You could almost say that we're becoming more like machines at the same time that machines are becoming more like us. To the extent that's true, the part of the old saying that goes "... but words…

I don't know if this is true all the time. I think knowingly sending rape threats to rape victims is pretty violent behavior. I think knowingly trying to trigger someone into an eating disorder relapse or coercing someone into suicide are heinous things that fall into violence. I think there is a line where speech can be violent or said with the intent to harm someone the same as a punch is.

Those would be intentional (a differentiation the article makes) threats. These fall under terroristic threats. They are not violent themself, but they are threats of violence which are not legal.

Re: Speech is violence? Not if we want a liberal, intellectual society

#20
It's interesting because in French, to speak literally translated would give something like "take the talk". (prendre la parole) So when somebody speaks, he takes something with, I guess, the hidden assumption that he/she's preventing others from taking it.
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