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Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

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Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#181

Post by dsfyu404ed »

duffyjp wrote: post #80
ravagat wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still in the camp that they did not in fact miss the boat on EVs. We, globally, are still very far off until EV adoption and probably better off focusing on more important things versus directly on EVs. Also Toyota was pioneer in EVs and I think you've discounted that if you're really looked at it on a bigger view of things

I agree. I have a 2013 Prius C that cost me $20K brand new and gets 50mpg without even trying. My fuel expenses are negligible. The new 2023 Prius gets even better milage and has TWICE the horsepower (99 vs 196). Before the Prius I had a 2000 Lexus ES with 200HP and I got about 17MPG. The advancement in ~20 years is incredible. Gas savings alone covered more than half of my loan payments each month.

> The advancement in ~20 years is incredible.

Pretty much every 90s compact was putting down similar power numbers and got 80% the fuel economy...

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#182

Post by starkd »

polalavik wrote: post #172
starkd wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going all in on EV's is also a very big gamble. Sure, there is probably a profitable segment in the market, but with so many other car companies going all-in, Toyota could be in a good position by having a wider line-up of products. There is something very strange about the herd mentality around EV's. As if we are going to fix the environment if only everybody gets an EV for ALL use cases.

Why is it a gamble when almost 100% percentage of the largest auto makers have gone all in? They will do all they can to make sure EVs do not fail, infrastructure availability does not fail, laws are made, etc because it is now in their best financial interest to do so, together.

Because some people do not WANT it and prefer ICE or hybrid vehicles. It's a very big world with alot of different use cases. A smart business strategy diversifies.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#183

Post by clouddrover »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #97
clouddrover wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when it lead me to charge to Freshmile Try A Better Routeplanner and configure it to plan routes which prioritize your preferred charging providers: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ You'll probably have an easier time of it with ABRP.

Not the parent you're replying to, but this comment is very indicative of the problem being addressed. With an ICE car, or even a hybrid, this is just not a consideration. I don't need to plan my route around fuel stops unless I'm going somewhere well away from 'civilization'. The issues described are not insolvable, but dismissing that they aren't currently solved is a little bit like sticking your head in the sand.…

What a bizarre thing to say. EV charging infrastructure is still being built out. It's still the case that there aren't EV chargers absolutely everywhere.

Until there are many more EV chargers in more locations such that you don't have to think about it, you use a route planner to easily find the charger locations that exist now.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#184

Post by manmal »

losvedir wrote: post #19

I had a Toyota. It was a great car, and a real testament to the engineering prowess Toyoda established. I see very clear, very interesting Innovator's Dilemma vibes, though, in how widely they've missed the boat on EVs. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Toyota lose its dominance in the coming decade. It's sad, since the Prius was such a gamechanger. Maybe the passing of the torch here will let them start to catch up.

My Ioniq is a great EV (though dated) and it’s not even a pure EV platform (also available as PHEV and ICE). Toyota only need to throw the ICE out of a PHEV and increase battery size, and they‘ll have an EV that’s probably better build quality than 90% of the market.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#185

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

lvl102 wrote: post #17

Made in Japan Toyota are built different. There’s something special about manufacturing in Japan even down to a simple screw.

Made in America Camrys had (don't know if it's still true) additional structural reinforcement for crash protection.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#186

Post by clouddrover »

epolanski wrote: post #175
drumhead wrote: post #12

Taking a small local car manufacturer and turning it into the one of the worlds biggest car makers, , overtaking all the US giants and creating the JIT process to revolutionise manufacturing is remarkable.

Toyota isn't just "one of the worlds biggest car makers" it is THE biggest car maker on the planet. They sell 25% more cars than the Volkswagen group (second biggest car maker on the planet) which includes Volkswagen, SEAT, Skoda, Porsche, Bentley and Audi and 50% more than Stellantins (which includes Fiat, Citroen, Peaugeot, Jeep, Ram, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Opel and another 6 manufacturers). It's just impressive how…

> They sell 25% more cars than the Volkswagen group (second biggest car maker on the planet)

No. Volkswagen and Toyota are pretty even. They swap positions as the biggest car maker. Volkswagen became the biggest in 2017 but Toyota became the biggest again in 2021:

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/28/business/toyota-volkswage...

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#187

Post by hindsightbias »

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #139
hindsightbias wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some analysts like Munro think legacies will take much longer to catch up to Tesla because they're evolving ICE designs/standards into their EVs and crippling them. Toyota is so huge they could have afforded a clean-sheet platform but waited too long so they'll fall into the same cycle.

They do have a clean sheet design: e-TNGA. The Toyota bZ4X and the Subaru Soltarra are both based on the design, along with the bZ3 and the upcoming Lexus RZ.

e-TNGA just appears to be an e- added to commonize with the TNGA gasoline architecture.

> Now Terashi’s group is considering whether to drop the three-year-old e-TNGA architecture, created by modifying a gasoline car platform, in favor of a dedicated EV platform, people with knowledge of that work have said.

https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14790566

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#188

Post by exhilaration »

francisofascii wrote: post #33
scotty79 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people who own plug-in hybrids don't really ever plug them in which makes them worse than gasoline cars or non-plugin hybrids because of added weight.

What? That doesn’t sound right. I would have to think the majority of people plug them in. That is the whole point of paying more for a plug-in.

There was a bunch of reporting on this study like this: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/features/phev-owners-not...

Here's the actual study (PDF): https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/real-world-ph...

We may have talked about it on HN.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#189

Post by blululu »

bischofs wrote: post #166
oblio wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Deming ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Japan ) contributed to the Toyota Way? A lot of the Toyota Way seems inspired by his teachings.

I work at Toyota, and they credit him on day one of training on the Toyota philosophy. Toyota's success is just a function of them listening to western consultants after the war when western companies would not.

There are also some broader macroeconomic reasons that these philosophies took root in post-war Japan. The combination of a weakened currency and strong New Deal style labor laws (that were proposed but thwarted by Detroit) was unique. Labor was cheap but politically dominant and materials were in short supply (I believe Shoichiro took power in the wake of a nearly catastrophic strike that gave him very few options beyond innovating on process).

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#190

Post by jlg23 »

bischofs wrote: post #166
oblio wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Deming ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Japan ) contributed to the Toyota Way? A lot of the Toyota Way seems inspired by his teachings.

I work at Toyota, and they credit him on day one of training on the Toyota philosophy. Toyota's success is just a function of them listening to western consultants after the war when western companies would not.

Or maybe it is the result of filling hollow, generic advice with some meaning. I'd really love to hear the original advice given by western consultants.
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