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Why I'm a Pirate

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Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#311

Post by ThomPete »

sequoia wrote: post #305
ThomPete wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second an artist is trying to mass produce they are businessmen not artists anymore. The artist didn't make the ability to produce in large numbers and distribute at zero cost, that is what technology did. A technology that served the labels and musicians for one hundred years. Now it is turning on them and they start to complain. Bo freaking ho. People make music without making a single dime on it. Great music i…

And I suppose charging for a concert makes them a filthy businessman as well. Should I get to choose whether or not I must pay to see them play live?

Of course not, that requires their physical presence and physical distribution. Very different.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#312

Post by gravitronic »

ThomPete wrote: post #282
sequoia wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me first state that I'm in basically total agreement with OP and mostly agree with parent, but one point sticks in my craw: >> The point is that this is my decision. >Granting the creator such rights takes them away from everyone else. Why is that justified? Why should one person, the creator, be able to tell other people what they can and cannot do? http://thegatheringplacehome.myfastforum.org/archive/life-le...…

The second an artist is trying to mass produce they are businessmen not artists anymore. The artist didn't make the ability to produce in large numbers and distribute at zero cost, that is what technology did. A technology that served the labels and musicians for one hundred years. Now it is turning on them and they start to complain. Bo freaking ho. People make music without making a single dime on it. Great music i…

Part of me hopes that your vision becomes reality and all financially backed art falls apart.. just so you, ThomPete, can live in a world that shitty and know that this is what you wanted. Enjoy your cat videos.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#313

Post by tjr »

wwwtyro wrote: post #244
route66 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I'm a musician. What "physical manifestation" are you talking about? Compressed air? Because as soon as I make a record I have to "guard that physical manifestation" ... how? with SOPA? preventing CD'd from being sold? And in short you deny artists of ownership of anything else than the physical representation (unethical!) But in the next sentence you make the creation "other people's property". If I think of som…

> What "physical manifestation" are you talking about? However your creation manifests itself. A live performance or the physical media of a recording, for example. > Because as soon as I make a record I have to "guard that physical manifestation" ... how? The same way you guard your other possessions: with a lock and a door. > you make the creation "other people's property" The physical manifestation. The matter, as…

What do you think about, for example, Creative Commons attribution licenses? Is it just for creators of informational works to allow the public to redistribute them only if they receive attribution for their work? Or is making any demands whatsoever with respect to redistribution not a right that the creator should have?

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#314

Post by fabjan »

sequoia wrote: post #274
hxa7241 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point is that this is my decision. Granting the creator such rights takes them away from everyone else. Why is that justified? Why should one person, the creator, be able to tell other people what they can and cannot do? > In that case, anybody can use it, replicate it, seek to profit from it, claim it as his own, or whatever, all without my having any say whatever in that process. This is a common approach, bu…

Let me first state that I'm in basically total agreement with OP and mostly agree with parent, but one point sticks in my craw: >> The point is that this is my decision. >Granting the creator such rights takes them away from everyone else. Why is that justified? Why should one person, the creator, be able to tell other people what they can and cannot do? http://thegatheringplacehome.myfastforum.org/archive/life-le...…

So the hen should control what the cow does with any bread the hen chooses to give the cow?

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#315

Post by angersock »

sunir wrote: post #304
angersock wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under a society in which copyright is protected, I can freely choose to do that if I like. I can place my work in the public domain and relinquish any right to compensation for it. As you can do in a society without copyright--that is your personal decision. Copyright is not required for you to do what you will with your stuff. Or I can let others use it freely but only on if they meet some condition that I impose on…

I don't understand your argument or what you are saying is wrong. Rights are a legal limitation on the actions of others, not a physical limitation. They exist to limit people from doing what they otherwise "can" do to you in the physical world. You have physical property rights so people cannot enter your home when you are at work and take your television. That is enforced through the law not the Fort Knox security…

Allow me to clarify--thank you for your feedback.

The rights we're talking about here are not able to be compared to physical property rights because there is no mutual exclusion of access.

If somebody steals my physical property, I can't use it, therefore they've harmed me and limited my actions. For knowledge, IP, etc. they cannot limit my access or permission, so I do not need to be put up guards.

My core argument, I guess, is this: There is no reason to have copyright because it is effectively unenforcable and because it has no real-world grounding. Moreover, it props up an economic model that fails in exposure to modern distribution methods.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#316

Post by ensignavenger »

wglb wrote: post #230
ensignavenger wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I have sole control over what is done with that which I create." Actually, the US Constitution only allows for limited control, not unlimited control. The Constitution requires Fair Use exceptions to your control of your created works.

While your conclusion is correct, isn't it other later case law that permitted Fair Use? I don't think that is actually in the constitution.

I meant to respond sooner. I think you are correct that Fair Use originally developed through case law, (owing to the First Amendment). It was later codified. The First Amendment is part of the Constitution, and take precedence over the Articles, thus Fair Use is necessary to reconcile copyright with the First Amendment (Which is part of the Constitution).

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#317

Post by ThomPete »

gravitronic wrote: post #312
ThomPete wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second an artist is trying to mass produce they are businessmen not artists anymore. The artist didn't make the ability to produce in large numbers and distribute at zero cost, that is what technology did. A technology that served the labels and musicians for one hundred years. Now it is turning on them and they start to complain. Bo freaking ho. People make music without making a single dime on it. Great music i…

Part of me hopes that your vision becomes reality and all financially backed art falls apart.. just so you, ThomPete, can live in a world that shitty and know that this is what you wanted. Enjoy your cat videos.

Do you even know how much great great great music gets created without ever making a single dime.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#318

Post by fabjan »

dhimes wrote: post #306
burgerbrain wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work for hire can exist without copyright you know.

What would the business model be in this case?

Someone writes music and sells it to someone who wants to play it.

Or maybe someone wants to make a film, so she hires a music writer for the score.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#319

Post by matwood »

sbarre wrote: post #183
bmelton wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pirating is not right. Most people would agree with that, too." The biggest problem I see today is that there are so many people who aren't even bothering to justify pirating, and instead insist that it is natural, good and just -- not just as a means to get access to content they otherwise wouldn't be able to, but for everything. To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply…

> To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply don't have any other access to. American shows that aren't broadcast overseas, for example; pirate away. Really? The problem I have with this argument is that you remove control of the creation from the creator. What if they are in the process of trying to make a distribution deal while people cut off demand at the knees by steal…

The legitimate option is GO WITHOUT IT. You have no RIGHT to anything here...

I agree, and I'm surprised so many people miss this. If everyone simply refused to use content that was not distributed under acceptable terms the content creators would change the terms.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#320

Post by baddox »

grellas wrote: post #212

Creative effort - or at at least any that is truly worthy of the name - takes tears, and sweat, and blood. We can marvel at the output of an artist, or a writer, or a composer, or a film maker and yet fail to focus on the years of toil that often preceded that work. And I am not here speaking of some isolated genius. I still remember the days when I was so dissatisfied with my lack of writing skills that I decided to…

My opinion is that you cannot own or have any control over an integer. I don't care how much effort you put into "discovering" this number: go right ahead and sell that number on a CD if you so desire, but I beleive the buyer has just as much authority over that number as you do (none).
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