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Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

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Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#351

Post by Volundr »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #313
kneebonian wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a doubt all of the best teachers I know say the worst parts of their job is dealing with parents. Many of them who have talked about quitting have almost always cited the parents as the biggest problem. Also the worst parents are in the richest areas.

This is highly dependent on where you teach. Teach in poor areas and student behavior is going to be your biggest issue because of bad parenting

Uhhh... If you think rich kids are well behaved I've got some bad news for you.

The rich parent is the one who is going to show up after the teacher disciplines a kid insisting their little darling would never do such a thing.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#352

Post by blamazon »

chitowneats wrote: post #344
blamazon wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One small part of the complicated answer to that question - a huge portion of that free money went to businesses in the form of PPP loans in a top-down kind of approach, which resulted in a dramatically high amount of fraud and misdirected public funds that will take tens of years to unravel. To ask another question: (presuming our hands were to be tied to give out that free money) Had we instead given that money dir…

"Had we instead given that money directly to teachers" You mean the people who went to great lengths to be considered non-essential, so they could work remotely? We know the result of that was historic learning loss for American children. They don't deserve another dime.

I sense a polarity in our opinions regarding responses to the pandemic that indicates we're unlikely to come to an agreement on much with regard to adjacent topics, which is okay with me. Trying to put myself in your shoes, my heart breaks for the things you probably saw and experiences you probably had during the pandemic that I presume contributed to this harsh perspective on the public education system in Chicago. The next generations are so important and I think we agree we should strive to serve them as best we can. Wishing the best for you and yours.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#353

Post by elil17 »

hammock wrote: post #340
elil17 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, for companies. But the government is supposed to act in the interest of all citizens, including the citizens it employs.

The government is supposed to act according to its constitution, and the elected officials are supposed to represent their constituents

And of those constituents are employed by the government. Hence the government should consider the interests of its own employees to a certain degree.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#354

Post by maratc »

fafafuf wrote: post #307
maratc wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, replace teachers with Linux servers and javascript?

In short "yes". Millions of teachers around the world every day do exactly the same work as other teachers - this is a huge waste of talented resources. If they don't need to do repetitive job, that can focus on individual learning for those who really need it or help society in other way.

Did you ask the kids whether they would rather be educated with a teacher in the company of fellow same-age kids, or with "technology" and "multimedia" without any chance to raise a hand, ask a question, get a slow answer?

Sorry, but this just reeks brutal tech-broism to me. "We have such a powerful technology that we can do everything, nevermind asking if we should."

My kids were confined to the home at the covid-19 lockdowns, and the learning over zoom not only wasn't even remotely efficient, it had profound long-term negative effects on their psychological well-being too. They actually enjoy being in the classroom with their friends and their teacher.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#355

Post by beej71 »

HEmanZ wrote: post #128

This is loosely related, but every time I think of public school teacher salaries my mind goes to the public school teachers I know. As a group they are… exceptionally ungifted. As just one example, I lived with two middle school teachers in Texas for a few years. They probably couldn’t pass the grade they were teaching. I have never met two professionals with so many credentials (MS in Education) and so little sense…

> This is loosely related, but every time I think of public school teacher salaries my mind goes to the public school teachers I know. As a group they are… exceptionally ungifted.

First, not sure I agree with this, but I don't have the numbers.

But second, it leads to this question: why don't schools simply choose higher-quality applicants to hire?

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#356

Post by beej71 »

It barely makes any economic sense to train to be a teacher. It's unlikely you'll make enough money to pay off your debt unless you get PSLF... but who knows if that's going to even exist in 10 years--that program's in the crosshairs of at least one of the major parties. You're risking being in debt for life.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#357

Post by karmakurtisaani »

sokoloff wrote: post #220
HEmanZ wrote: post #128

This is loosely related, but every time I think of public school teacher salaries my mind goes to the public school teachers I know. As a group they are… exceptionally ungifted. As just one example, I lived with two middle school teachers in Texas for a few years. They probably couldn’t pass the grade they were teaching. I have never met two professionals with so many credentials (MS in Education) and so little sense…

Both of my parents were math teachers, so I got to experience growing up around a lot of teachers and hearing their compliments and complaints about their peers. There are about 4 million K-12 teachers in the US; it's one of the most common professions and isn't immune to having the resulting distribution of talent. My brother had a high-school math teacher who could only explain "the reason we say the square root of…

I love it how in the US it's an immediate question if the tax paying public can sustain higher salaries for teachers, while simultaneously happily accept the enormous military spending without batting an eye. Please let us Europeans salute you for providing us with stability and peace at the expense of your own youth!

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#358

Post by throwaway6734 »

Volundr wrote: post #351
throwaway6734 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is highly dependent on where you teach. Teach in poor areas and student behavior is going to be your biggest issue because of bad parenting

Uhhh... If you think rich kids are well behaved I've got some bad news for you. The rich parent is the one who is going to show up after the teacher disciplines a kid insisting their little darling would never do such a thing.

Yes and the poor student is aggressive and violent because they've been bounced around foster homes because their mom is a junkie and their dad has never been in the picture.

Rich parents can be bad, but it's not the same stress as dealing with students raised in environments that have completely normalized violence

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#359

Post by kennywinker »

indymike wrote: post #310
kennywinker wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long have you had vouchers, and what is the long term trend.

12-13 years. They work.

Uh-huh. 13 years doesn't make me feel even a little confidant you've proven they work. The arc of social changes are long.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#360

Post by beej71 »

friend_and_foe wrote: post #338
yakireev wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We want to pay them more because they keep saying that if we do they'll teach better. Given a choice, would you prefer the teacher of your kid paid 30k or 60k? I'd prefer the second option even if it would be the same person teaching, because do you really want your kids to be raised by people in dire financial situation? A prospect of smarter folks becoming teachers (or staying in the field if they're there alread…

I'm perfectly happy with a teacher making 60k provided that they're teaching my kid well. I'm not happy with giving them a raise if they're not, and "their lives could be easier so we should do it anyway" is not a compelling argument. In the rest of the professional world we have to earn our salaries.

What if underperforming teachers were fired and replaced with high-performing teachers? This is really what needs to happen, but...

It's way harder to find high-performing teachers when you lowball salaries. It's actually way harder to find _any_ teachers when you do that. So if you're not willing to raise pay, you'll take what you get and you'll like it.

> In the rest of the professional world we have to earn our salaries.

As someone who worked decades in the professional world before giving up a huge chunk of salary to pursue my passion for teaching, this is not entirely true. There are tons of slacker leeches in the professional world. I've seen it worse than in teaching.

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