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Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

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Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#151
post #2

I've seen this news of Toyoda's passing posted across various social media channels and it's incredible to see how many Toyota owners have thanked him posthumously. I remember that when Steve Jobs died. This seems similar in a sense.

> it's incredible to see

From that statement, I'm guessing you've never owned a Camry?

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota is building one of the most reliable and robust cars for the masses. With attitude to build cars they will be competitive for very long.

Agreed. I'm hopeful to see if their research into synthetically created hydrogen fuel powered cars will get us fuel created by green energy that we can run in hydrogen fuel cell cars so we get the best of both cutting fuel emissions to net zero and still have the flexibility of cross-country drives and fast fuelings without having to have all our (agriculture, industrial, etc.) vehicles be BEVs.

So Hydrogen's perk would be quicker fueling but I don't know how many people are going to be willing to pay the fairly large additional cost for that convenience.

Toyota Mirai:

Tank Size: 5.6 kg of hydrogen

Cost per kg of hydrogen: $13.11

Miles of range: 402

Cost per mile: $0.18

Ioniq 5:

Battery Size: 77.4 kWh

Range: 302 miles

Miles per kWh: 3.5

Cost per kWh (Currently at my house): $0.27 per kWh

Cost per mile: $0.08

Ford Maverick Hybrid (My current vehicle):

Tank size: 13.6 Gallons

Range: ~500 miles

Average fuel economy: 38.5 mpg (my average currently)

Cost per gallon: $3.40 (last price I saw on the way into work)

Cost per mile: $0.088

To get an equivalent cost per mile electricity would have to $0.63 per kWh. Largely though that is currently with hydrogen made from natural gas, versus green hydrogen which will end up being intrinsically lin.18/ked to the cost of electricity. From what I have seen it is somewhere around 3 watts of electricity to get 1 W equivalent of hydrogen which might be able to get a 2 to 1 ratio in the future. I think certain sectors like aerospace will be okay with the additional cost due to other advantages but regular consumers it seems less likely.

Cost for Hydrogen (I went with the lower number): https://h2fcp.org/content/cost-refill

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brand reputation is a positive feedback loop. Better reputation -> charge more money -> poorer people who are gonna use your product at 11/10ths and try and skate by with the bare minimum of proactive maintenance buy it less -> the average example on the road is in better condition for its age -> high end consumers go "hey those things are lasting well I'll buy one" -> your average customer is richer so you don't hav…

Yep. The opposite feedback loop is “big Altima energy”. The $1000 cheaper new cars become the preferred cars of those who don’t care or can’t really afford it, which end up being the cheapest and most abused used cars. Which end up on buy-here-pay-here lots. And repeat.

I have to wonder if maybe it was the way GM and their dealers marketed these vehicles. The Prizm wasn't sold in my market so I don't truly know, but I think brand loyalty on the dealers' side saw them push customers to the more true-blue options like the cavalier. One doesn't have to spend long at your average street corner to see how that turned out for the customer.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#154

Taking a small local car manufacturer and turning it into the one of the worlds biggest car makers, , overtaking all the US giants and creating the JIT process to revolutionise manufacturing is remarkable.

It really is amazing. Another way to visualize this success is to consider how physically close you are to one of Toyota’s products right now, sort of a K-nearest neighbors idea. And how many of those were manufactured in Japan, and considered notable within their category (ex: 4Runner, RAV4 Prime).

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#155
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However the whole EU market can't return to ICEs because of fleet emission limits, which are now 95g CO2/km and from 2025 will be 15% lower, with other changes too. So my guess is, people who can afford it (including charging infra) will have EVs which will get better and more expensive and the rest will not buy new cars. Maybe the market will shift to smaller forms of mobility, we'll see.

I am coming from an Eastern Block. It was quite common during communism to drive 20-30 years old cars. I think that Eastern Europe will teach the western part how to properly stagnate.

It was not. Cars of that era didn't last, as a matter of fact, they would last much less (and require far more maintenance) than the cars of today.

It is true that certain cars (Trabi comes to mind) could be fixed roadside with a screwdriver and a hammer usually, but >100k kilometers life was still rare - people simply used their cars less and for shorter trips those days.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#156
post #31

Lots of people saying Toyota missed the boat on EVs. I'm not convinced the technology, infrastructure or battery supply is ready for true mass production of EVs. Toyota makes 10 million cars a year, they'll be selling good EVs soon enough to put Tesla to shame.

I guess I understand why Toyota hasn't gone full-hog into EVs. There's a lot of life left in their hybrid and ICE drivetrains.

What I don't understand is why whatever BEVs they have tried so far, have been pretty crappy. For instance, the bZ4X is a total joke in almost all aspects -- features, range, etc.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#157
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first manager was an ex-military crew-chief who was stationed in Japan for a bit. In his words, "Whatever your job is, you take pride in it and try to do it the best you can every day. If you're a gas station attendant, you try to be the best gas station attendant you can be." His description obviously stuck with me, as it's a nice summary of a fundamental social bargain: everyone is important and valued, and in e…

> everyone is important and valued This statement is in seeming conflict well documented hierarchical nature of Japanese society.

That's a very western lens still. Hierarchy doesn't mean you view those under you with contempt. The entire concept of a team, on a micro scale, is that it has a leader who is invested in the group's success and people who choose to follow them because they think the leader respects them and can provide the necessary coordination.

Toxic individualism doesn't get things done, nor does it encourage excellence. A hierarchy with mutual respect does, though it must be fair and tempered with reasonable mobility.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#158
post #17

Made in Japan Toyota are built different. There’s something special about manufacturing in Japan even down to a simple screw.

That's why I make sure the VIN starts with J before I even consider buying a car. And US owned companies are not even worth considering.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm told that many agile techniques also had their genesis in his work The “kanban” interfaces definitely originate from Toyota. Scrum was influenced by Toyota’s management techniques, among others. I believe other familiar concepts, e.g. “kaizen” or continuous improvement, also originate from Toyota.

Toyota wasn't first. But it was them learning a lot from working on looms, and other stuff at textile mills taught them how to max productivity. Textiles making was already a very competitive industry in late 19th century, and the only way to push forward in productivity after looms were optimized to the max was to cut slack in between machines — management techniques. There the manufacturers were stealing each other…

There are many books on the Toyota system, so that they have stolen the show. I have always suspected that other Japanese factories might have also had interesting production systems but only found one book about Honda. How did you know this detail about the electric andon originating at Suzuki? Can you suggest books on this topic?

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. The opposite feedback loop is “big Altima energy”. The $1000 cheaper new cars become the preferred cars of those who don’t care or can’t really afford it, which end up being the cheapest and most abused used cars. Which end up on buy-here-pay-here lots. And repeat.

I have to wonder if maybe it was the way GM and their dealers marketed these vehicles. The Prizm wasn't sold in my market so I don't truly know, but I think brand loyalty on the dealers' side saw them push customers to the more true-blue options like the cavalier. One doesn't have to spend long at your average street corner to see how that turned out for the customer.

Yeah, it totally starts with marketing, and how manufacturers target their markets:

https://jalopnik.com/nissan-is-going-to-pay-dealers-more-to-...

Walk into a Honda/Toyota dealership and you'll probably be offered 48 or 60, and a short warranty to match.

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