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Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

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Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#131

Post by kneebonian »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #84

I definitely agree that teachers in many areas are underpaid, but I think a single nationwide minimum wage for teachers is a bad idea. There is just way too much variability in cost of living between different locales for a single amount to make sense. Would much rather it be based on some localizable metric, e.g. X times the median apartment rent or some such (don't want to get caught up on the details, other than t…

See this is something I wish people would understand more when talking about economics things like a federal minimum wage in a place like NYC or Cali may not sound like much but in rural Missouri or Arkansas that could bankrupt most of the businesses overnight.

If only we divided the country into geographical areas that could each be responsible for administering their own issues for the most part, so they would have a better understanding of the costs and tradeoffs, and be able to live they way they want without enforcing their way of life on people halfway across the country, and instead of the people in a few big cities and Washington DC ruling everyone from afar each regional area could be self governed.

Oh well that sounds like nonsense anyway after all the same things that are good for NJ are obviously the way things should be run in Montana .

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#132

Post by indymike »

kennywinker wrote: post #105
pokstad wrote: post #10

Instead, allow for a voucher system where parents can apply the equivalent amount of money the public school spends and apply it towards private schools. Make it easy for teachers to start their own school or coop to compete for vouchers. Definitely a pipe dream but it might work.

You do understand how this would and has played out, right? Basically the government would be subsidizing private schools for the rich, and since rich people are getting their needs met the funding will evaporate for schools in poorer neighbourhoods. Society will be move divided and your ability to succeed will depend on the class you’re born into above all else. How can developers understand the value and need for d…

We did this in Indiana and handled this by having an income cap for voucher eligibility. The reality is that people living in poor areas now have access to better schools. Rich people don't get vouchers.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#133

Post by paulryanrogers »

kneebonian wrote: post #86
kshahkshah wrote: post #24

I'm in NJ where we value public education, for the most part. According to National Center for Education Statistics our average teacher pay was $77,489 in 2022. This is excluding benefits/pension. Well worth it.

I lived in an area for a little bit Strongsville OH where the teachers went on strike because they wanted better benefits and they were making 90k. My mom with a master's and 7 years experience was only making around 40k as a school teacher where I grew up. It is interesting.

In another part of Ohio my SO was making 46k as a teacher. Keep in mind not every teacher is paid the same. To get higher salaries they often have to take on more preps or administrative duties, requiring even more hours.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#134

Post by arroz »

hammock wrote: post #70

The minimum starting salary for a teacher in Chicago is $60,000 (cost of living adjusted), the highest in the country. It hasn't solved Chicago Public Schools' problems. Source: https://wirepoints.org/chicago-teachers-are-paid-some-of-the...

You are not paying teachers a living wage so it “solves” public schools problems. You are paying them a living wage because it is the correct thing to do.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#135

Post by badcppdev »

hammock wrote: post #70

The minimum starting salary for a teacher in Chicago is $60,000 (cost of living adjusted), the highest in the country. It hasn't solved Chicago Public Schools' problems. Source: https://wirepoints.org/chicago-teachers-are-paid-some-of-the...

Is the ratio of teachers to student relevant as well? And perhaps other factors?

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#136

Post by macinjosh »

Elidrake42 wrote: post #55
pokstad wrote: post #10

Instead, allow for a voucher system where parents can apply the equivalent amount of money the public school spends and apply it towards private schools. Make it easy for teachers to start their own school or coop to compete for vouchers. Definitely a pipe dream but it might work.

Isn't the typical argument against such vouchers in Housing that companies will simply bake the voucher amount into the price, leaving us in the same place without a public option?

None of the voucher systems I've heard of abolish the public system. It simply gives parents and students more choices and actually forces the public system to compete instead of continually beg for more funding that ultimately goes into the pockets of administrators instead of teachers and resources for students.

I do not see what public education advocates are fearing here. If their systems are so amazing and essential than surely the private sector can do no better, right? This will force school systems to become more lean from an administrative point of view.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#137

Post by hammock »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #101
hammock wrote: post #70

The minimum starting salary for a teacher in Chicago is $60,000 (cost of living adjusted), the highest in the country. It hasn't solved Chicago Public Schools' problems. Source: https://wirepoints.org/chicago-teachers-are-paid-some-of-the...

Perhaps because $60k is not actually that much for what we ask of our public school teachers. HN: $100k/yr to write webshit is a poverty wage! Also HN: $60k/yr is too much for the people we expect to educate our children!

I don't believe there is a strong or even weak correlation between teachers' salaries and educational outcomes. Chicago teachers get paid the most yet their schools are among the worst in the nation. Private school teachers get paid less than public but produce better outcomes. Etc. There are other, far more important factors we ought to be paying attention to

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#138

Post by news_to_me »

mwint wrote: post #60
news_to_me wrote: post #44

My first “real” job after college (2013) I started at $60k. It was more than my mom, an elementary school teacher, ever made. It felt embarrassing. Teachers are at least as valuable as software developers (probably more), given their impact on society. Why do they make so little?

Supply and demand, like always. The market cares not one bit about what someone “should” be paid, it cares about the price where no one is left willing to do the same job for less. If you want teachers to be paid more, increase the requirements to be a teacher. I’m a proponent of requiring at least n years experience in real world work, plus education in a hard science or trade.

What demand though? Nobody “buys” what public teachers produce - it’s a public service. It’s up to the state (and ultimately, voters) to decide what teachers make. And it’s even harder for teachers to advocate for themselves in states where teacher unions are banned.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#139

Post by tristor »

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2022, the median income in the US was $54,132/yr [1] and the US Census Bureau says median household income was $70,784/yr [2].

I'm not opposed to teachers making $60k/yr, but I think setting this as a floor at a federal level for what is one of the most common professions in the US [3] will have significant and serious unintended consequences. There is a massive amount of territory in the US, where people reside, and are entitled to a public education, that are not major cities with significant tax income. These places don't have the necessary population and tax base to pay this type of salary for a teacher.

Let's take a look at one such state, Missouri, basically smack in the middle of the country. It has two major cities (Kansas City and St Louis) and a significant number of rural communities. The average salary for a teacher in Missouri is $51557/yr [4] but falls to around $40k/yr in rural areas like Marceline and Fredericktown, while being nearly $60k/yr in major cities like KC and STL. If you compare this to another common public profession, police officers, you see a similar story [5] with average pay around $58k/yr, but falling to less than 40k/yr starting for communities like Fredericktown [6] and Marceline [7].

How are small communities supposed to pay teachers $60k/yr? The reality is that politicians and pundits on the coasts never give a thought in their mind to "flyover country" or how rural and urban economics differ in the US. Instead, we try to manipulate the economy at the federal level, not giving any credence to the fact the United States is geographically massive with exceedingly varied local and regional economies and cultures.

[1]: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf

[2]: https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2022/demo/p60-27...

[3]: https://www.weareteachers.com/how-many-teachers-are-in-the-u...

[4]: https://missouri.teach.org/salary-benefits-missouri

[5]: https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/police-offi...

[6]: https://www.indeed.com/career/police-officer/salaries/Freder...

[7]: http://marcelinemo.us/home/employment.html

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#140

Post by ecopoesis »

jvmfjvfjvf wrote: post #53
kshahkshah wrote: post #24

I'm in NJ where we value public education, for the most part. According to National Center for Education Statistics our average teacher pay was $77,489 in 2022. This is excluding benefits/pension. Well worth it.

If you value education, why does your state have unions that force pay based on seniority and not outcome?

The state doesn't have unions, the teachers do. The state negotiates with the union and then the teachers vote to approve the agreed on contract. If the teachers don't like the contract the union has negotiated, they can vote against it. If the union leadership continues to negotiate unacceptable contracts, the teachers can vote their union leadership out.
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