Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

aft.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 410 posts

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#111

Post by indymike »

pokstad wrote: post #10

Instead, allow for a voucher system where parents can apply the equivalent amount of money the public school spends and apply it towards private schools. Make it easy for teachers to start their own school or coop to compete for vouchers. Definitely a pipe dream but it might work.

We did this in Indiana. Vouchers have been very popular, particularly with lower income families who are stuck with failing traditional public schools. In short, kids really don't have decades to wait for the existing system to be fixed, and vouchers give parents a way to make sure their kids are in better situations. It also has forced public schools to up their game in every way because if you don't offer what parents want, you will get competition. In well-funded, wealthy areas, vouchers have mattered a lot less.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#112

Post by teucris »

macinjosh wrote: post #29
walthamstow wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good? If you want maths taught by actual maths grads, then you will need six figure salaries to attract them.

No one needs a math grad to teach 3rd grade math. That would be a huge waste of money and expertise.

More specifically, teaching is a different skill than knowing. Excellent math teachers are very different than math majors - in some ways it’s less complex (eg pushing the boundaries of the field of mathematics), and in others it is far more (understanding the human psyche and how to effectively communicate abstract concepts).

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#113

Post by hammock »

endisneigh wrote: post #82

The only way teachers would ever be able to make a lot of money is if some metrics apparatus was created by the United States and income outcomes were traced back to individual schools and teachers in said schools got some portion of that as part of their salary. Of course, the USA would have to bootstrap the first "cohort" of this. Otherwise, the point is simple - good teachers don't get paid more, because there's n…

>The only way teachers would ever be able to make a lot of money

Public school teachers already make more than private school teachers. Their salaries are propped up by governments and unions

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#114

Post by AlotOfReading »

pokstad wrote: post #10

Instead, allow for a voucher system where parents can apply the equivalent amount of money the public school spends and apply it towards private schools. Make it easy for teachers to start their own school or coop to compete for vouchers. Definitely a pipe dream but it might work.

What would stop this from further becoming a segregated system where public schools are left supporting IEP and other expensive student groups on a shoestring budget while private schools accept only the most profitable students?

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#115

Post by nfRfqX5n »

mwint wrote: post #60
news_to_me wrote: post #44

My first “real” job after college (2013) I started at $60k. It was more than my mom, an elementary school teacher, ever made. It felt embarrassing. Teachers are at least as valuable as software developers (probably more), given their impact on society. Why do they make so little?

Supply and demand, like always. The market cares not one bit about what someone “should” be paid, it cares about the price where no one is left willing to do the same job for less. If you want teachers to be paid more, increase the requirements to be a teacher. I’m a proponent of requiring at least n years experience in real world work, plus education in a hard science or trade.

What other requirements? Teachers require at least a 4 year degree. Specialists like speech therapists require a masters degree. Try paying off a masters degree with a teachers salary.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#116

Post by tenebrisalietum »

bfrog wrote: post #76

[flagged]

There's a significant number that would rather do it themselves or simply be given vouchers to select an educational institution of their choice, because they believe government-provided educators don't teach things correctly or they want their children to be provided religious-focused instruction.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#117

Post by mempko »

macinjosh wrote: post #39
mempko wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't teachers make six figures? I mean after all, half the people here just put buttons on websites and get paid six figures.

Because teacher salaries, like the salaries of people here, should be determined by the market not by warm and fuzzy feelings.

Why? the market has huge flaws. For example, most money is held by a very small amount of people. Should the market solve for them or for the vast number of people?

The market has externalities, which is a huge flaw in pricing things. This is a known studied problem with markets.

Third, it's one of many optimization processes. If you understand machine learning, you understand that there are different models, different solution spaces, and optimizations (learning) on them requires different techniques. Why should we rely on a highly flawed optimization process like the market to decide these important things in society?

Democratic and consensus building is another way to come to these complex decisions without relying on 'spot trade' and pricing restrictions that the market has.

"The Market" is a technology. Thinking the market solves everything is like saying vacuum-tubes should be used in all electronics.

Like, have you ever wondered why, at your work place, there aren't markets? Why don't most large successful companies have market dynamics internally if the market solves all organizational issues?

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#118

Post by kennywinker »

macinjosh wrote: post #74
barbazoo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a dystopian education system that would be.

Why? The idea that everyone is forced to go to the same place and be educated the same way is dystopian, IMHO. What ever happened to diversity?

You can have diversity without turning education into a for-profit hellscape.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#119

Post by monocasa »

mwint wrote: post #60
news_to_me wrote: post #44

My first “real” job after college (2013) I started at $60k. It was more than my mom, an elementary school teacher, ever made. It felt embarrassing. Teachers are at least as valuable as software developers (probably more), given their impact on society. Why do they make so little?

Supply and demand, like always. The market cares not one bit about what someone “should” be paid, it cares about the price where no one is left willing to do the same job for less. If you want teachers to be paid more, increase the requirements to be a teacher. I’m a proponent of requiring at least n years experience in real world work, plus education in a hard science or trade.

I mean, we already have massive teacher shortages. Class sizes keep going up, and many school systems are switching to four day schedules because of staffing issues.

Not everything can be looked at from a macro econ 101 supply and demand take; the real world is much more complicated than that.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#120

Post by JustSomeNobody »

pokstad wrote: post #10

Instead, allow for a voucher system where parents can apply the equivalent amount of money the public school spends and apply it towards private schools. Make it easy for teachers to start their own school or coop to compete for vouchers. Definitely a pipe dream but it might work.

Ah yes! Funnel MORE tax payer dollars to the wealthy.
Post reply on HN