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Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

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Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#151

Sorry to hear that! Curious what you think of DO now? I've always loved DO but I've found it REALLY hard to recommend we us it at work

I mean, I don't want this to be the "kicking them while they're down thread", but I always wondered how a little guy is supposed to compete with AWS. I say that as someone who was there firsthand to watch Rackspace get crushed by them.

I use DO and AWS and I use DO when I want to guarantee my shit is gonna cost $5 a month.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#152

Sorry to hear that! Curious what you think of DO now? I've always loved DO but I've found it REALLY hard to recommend we us it at work

I mean, I don't want this to be the "kicking them while they're down thread", but I always wondered how a little guy is supposed to compete with AWS. I say that as someone who was there firsthand to watch Rackspace get crushed by them.

While I'm not an enterprise customer, I can tell you why I choose Digital Ocean (and have been using them for the last 10 years).

They allow me to put a fixed amount of money in a fund that they charge me from. I will never get any "surprise fees" this way. They don't have my credit card so it will just drain my funds until they delete my services, which is extremely ok by me.

My major fear of paying for things like AWS or Google business/cloud tools is the fear of getting my account locked up/banned because I want to dispute a charge that isn't fair. I've slowly been decoupling my accounts away from Google (banking, healthcare, etc) but it's very hard. Their moat is extremely deep.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I was a technical writer on the content team. I am hearing that our entire team was laid off. It just isn't a big money-maker in these trying times. More of a cost center, I suspect. It's too bad, as DO tutorials and content have been respected for so many years by developers and sysadmins. The end of an era.

fwiw their decision is foolish and shortsighted imo; the only reason i ever used do was because they hooked me in with their tutorials and guides

Kind of you to say. I know many devs have loved our content for a long time. I was one of them, which is the whole reason I joined as a tech writer. I can't claim to have helped create that solid library of tutorials, as I was only at the company for a little while. It's a real shame.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very sorry to hear that, though you seem to have a fairly good outlook about it. Excuse me if it's callous to ask this at this time, but as I've been observing layoffs and been hearing that people are immediately shut down from their systems, I'm wondering: how do they communicate it to you if you can't access your email? Do they reach out to your personal email, call you, send you a letter? I might understand revoki…

I don't understand why it's necessary to treat employees with such sudden distrust. It is necessary to immediately cut off all access? These employees aren't being fired because they are suspected of perpetrating a crime, right? I I understand the need for layoffs, but I can't respect an organization/leadership that treats people so coldly. This behavior also affects non-fired employees that may have a need to ask kn…

Cmon man literally every well known late stage startup, faang, and even small startups are doing layoffs like this. Your only employment options at this point if you stood to your morales are Apple, Verkada, and Levis’ Jeans

Not to mention when the money was flowing in half the talk and advice around the industry was take more money over the relationships you’ve built with your current org. Can’t have your cake and eat it too

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the administrative/IT point of view, I understand it entirely. It's a simple risk/value proposition. If an employee gets mad they were laid off (and that does happen) and decides in a fit of rage to start deleting Slack channels, damaging or even just accessing production environments, deleting shared logins in the team password manager, downloading company/employee/customer/client data, stealing company IP, etc…

> Even if what they do is illegal or you can sue them afterward, it's a very significant short term loss and in some cases, they may be able to do damage that cannot be reversed like deleting Slack channels. I was recently tasked with revoking access to systems during my companies recent round of layoffs. We had it timed so that when the departing employee found out they were leaving they'd already have no access. Un…

Exactly. We've had some similar issues. We also time it so they get locked out as they are being told (we do it in-person/over-call rather than via email as DO did). We've never had an issue preventing them damaging systems, but we have received a few laptops from remote employees that were clearly damaged in rage and in a few cases, had employees start calling up their clients and trying to persuade them to leave us for literally anyone else. It can be rough as a smaller company trying to convince clients they're jilted ex-employees that aren't telling the truth about anything.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#156
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is the difference of a few extra million market cap to handicap your ability to grow during the next expansion phase? For an executive, it's a big difference in stock based bonus. The executive level at corporate america tends to filter for status and financial obsessed sociopaths, so they make sociopathic decisions where they are content with making decisions that harm many (layoffs) but benefit themselves. T…

That would make sense if a significant amount of their compensation stood to be made during the contraction. However if your tenure is expected to outlast the contraction then you would make more money in the long run by planning for how to be in the best position to exploit the market conditions during the next upswing. It's hard to do that if you layoff crucial staff that are part of your growth engine.

Average CEO tenure is 5 years and it's going down. Personal anecdote: I worked at a large EU tech company, then acquired by even larger US tech company. For the five years there, I've seen five different CEOs with almost fully different teams of other C-levels. After the second CEO you clearly start to see how long the next one expects to reign - just take the roadmap and look where reasonable and achievable goals convert into pipe dreams.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#157
post #79

When interest rates are 0%, any amount of growth compounded over years is attractive. When you can get a 5% risk-free return from treasuries, even 7% rate of return is unattractive when compared to the safest asset on earth returning 5%. My point is, layoffs will continue until companies are much more efficient, or interest rates go down.

layoffs will continue until companies are much more efficient DO made a profit of a little over $250m in 2022, on revenue of $428.6m. That's a 60% margin. How much efficiency does a company need? EDIT: Correction.. those are the 2021 numbers. The latest numbers on the DO website for Q3 2022 state; " Gross profit of $97.6 million or 64% of revenue, an increase of 300 basis points year-over-year, and adjusted gross pro…

More than that. 60% margin on a growth business is dangerously low.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#158
post #79

When interest rates are 0%, any amount of growth compounded over years is attractive. When you can get a 5% risk-free return from treasuries, even 7% rate of return is unattractive when compared to the safest asset on earth returning 5%. My point is, layoffs will continue until companies are much more efficient, or interest rates go down.

layoffs will continue until companies are much more efficient DO made a profit of a little over $250m in 2022, on revenue of $428.6m. That's a 60% margin. How much efficiency does a company need? EDIT: Correction.. those are the 2021 numbers. The latest numbers on the DO website for Q3 2022 state; " Gross profit of $97.6 million or 64% of revenue, an increase of 300 basis points year-over-year, and adjusted gross pro…

> That's a 60% margin.

If you don't count salaries and operations. From the linked statement

> Income from operations was $9.4 million and operating margin was 6%.

Last quarter was DO first profitable quarter. If sales go down it's going to be hard to maintain that.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't address the point in the comment you replied to. He is talking about returns. The question is what return they made on invested capital. It might still be very good, I have no idea, but it's not the same as margin.

Thanks for posting this. I see so many comments that fundamentally misunderstand the relationship between rising interest rates and layoffs, e.g. "Many of these companies have very low debt and don't need to borrow right now, so why do they need to do layoffs?" Interest rates are the key parameter for calculating the present value of future cash flows, which is (theoretically) how companies are valued. When interest…

But why does that matter? Why does a wildly profitable company need to compete with “risk-free investment options”? Why do they need to be an investment option at all?

Obviously I’m not understanding something very basic about finance here, but I don’t see how “profitable company is not more profitable than a loan would be” implies layoffs.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#160
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never lose your 2FA backup codes or you're locked out of your account forever if you lose your 2FA device - despite support having a verification process to remove 2FA in the event you lost your codes - the support tickets are ignored or unmonitored. I was also a happy DO customer for the last 5 years or so. But now I'm locked out of my account. My fault for losing my codes (DO are the only backup codes I can't seem…

> Never lose your 2FA backup codes or you're locked out of your account forever if you lose your 2FA device In the case of digital infrastructure, I'm actually kinda ok with this. Would be better if it was a policy or if you could prove ownership of the payment account, but at the very least it's much harder to social engineer someone out of an account. Of course, the lack of support isn't good.

I'm OK with it when it is official policy or you were warned beforehand that "No really. If you lose this and you're fucked - we will not provide support for account recovery." Precisely for the same security reason of preventing social engineering attacks for otherwise well-secured assets. But, and it is common with most places, you can jump through some hoops and get it removed my support. I still blame myself for losing my backup codes - but being told Support can help and then being ignored is well... annoying to say the least.

I use cock.li [0] for my emails. This is the official password recovery process:

> I forgot my password!

> Passwords are not reset for any reason. Good luck.

Many years ago - I forgot my password to my email! It was the kick in the ass I needed to begin using a password manager - and since the email was mostly for memes and not really used it was mostly a positive experience with a positive outcome. I occasionally try to login to the email but so far no luck in remembering my password. :)

[0] https://cock.li/help

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