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Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

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Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#41

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Octoth0rpe wrote: post #38
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FED wants unemployment to go up This is wrong. The Fed doesn’t want higher unemployment. It isn’t even willing to tolerate it. That’s the whole “soft landing” conversation, and why hikes are so hesitant. The ideal path would be labor market loosening with no more unemployment. Absent structural adjustments, that’s possible. But we need structural adjustments, so layoffs are necessary, which makes the closest to ide…

Maybe the reason why people keep repeating it is because that's more or less what Powell keeps saying: "Reducing inflation will likely require a sustained period of below-trend growth, and it will very likely require a softening of labor conditions," (source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/federal-reserve-interest-rate-h... ) Softening of labor conditions is pretty directly saying "Increase unemployment". > and why cut…

> Softening of labor conditions is pretty directly saying "Increase unemployment"

Not at all. It means less nominal wage growth. That can and does happen without an increase in even job losses, let alone unemployment. (You can have job losses with constant or even increasing employment.)

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#43

Post by btbuildem »

chasd00 wrote: post #15
jalino23 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how does interest rate affects company layoffs and why is being more efficient affects that? and why would FED want this? - serious question

The FED wants unemployment to go up which will drive demand, and therefore prices, down. That will reduce inflation.

Prices never come down. Except maybe gasoline, after it jumps high in a panic now and again. Everything else just ratchets up, always.

The best I can understand it, the low interest rates encourage lending / borrowing, which expands the money supply. As the supply of real goods and services is not keeping up, theres more money than goods, so prices of everything go up.

Layoffs are a way of keeping wages down, but that's just corporate greed. If wages went up, it would effectively negate inflation - we'd just get extra zeros on everything, but individual purchasing power would stay on par (you could still pay your rent with half a paycheck, etc).

Of course in a global economy that would cause the country to be at a disadvantage in the import/export game.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#44

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rr808 wrote: post #33
monero-xmr wrote: post #8

When interest rates are 0%, any amount of growth compounded over years is attractive. When you can get a 5% risk-free return from treasuries, even 7% rate of return is unattractive when compared to the safest asset on earth returning 5%. My point is, layoffs will continue until companies are much more efficient, or interest rates go down.

This math ignores inflation. When interest rates are 0% and inflation is 1% you have -1% interest rates, which makes investing in FI bad. When interest rates are 5% and inflation is 7%, real rates are -2% (maybe -3 or -4% after tax) which is worse than before.

> rates are 5% and inflation is 7%, real rates are -2% (maybe -3 or -4% after tax) which is worse than before

Spot real rates versus long-term inflation expectations. If you think we’ll be at 3 or 4% inflation long term, the short term bite is fine. As such, yes, higher nominal rates, even if lower in real terms in the short run, can still have this effect.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#45

Post by steve-atx-7600 »

arcturus17 wrote: post #9
kmshultz wrote: post #3

Same here. Rolled over in bed to an email from Yancey to my personal email. Went to my laptop, can't log in, Slack is also dead. Early Spring Break!

Very sorry to hear that, though you seem to have a fairly good outlook about it. Excuse me if it's callous to ask this at this time, but as I've been observing layoffs and been hearing that people are immediately shut down from their systems, I'm wondering: how do they communicate it to you if you can't access your email? Do they reach out to your personal email, call you, send you a letter? I might understand revoki…

I don't understand why it's necessary to treat employees with such sudden distrust. It is necessary to immediately cut off all access? These employees aren't being fired because they are suspected of perpetrating a crime, right? I I understand the need for layoffs, but I can't respect an organization/leadership that treats people so coldly. This behavior also affects non-fired employees that may have a need to ask knowledge transfer questions.

Since I'm fortunate enough to be an experienced SWE living in the US, I can afford to add D.O. to my list of "will never work for" employers and discourage peers from ever joining.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#46

Post by Octoth0rpe »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41
Octoth0rpe wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the reason why people keep repeating it is because that's more or less what Powell keeps saying: "Reducing inflation will likely require a sustained period of below-trend growth, and it will very likely require a softening of labor conditions," (source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/federal-reserve-interest-rate-h... ) Softening of labor conditions is pretty directly saying "Increase unemployment". > and why cut…

> Softening of labor conditions is pretty directly saying "Increase unemployment" Not at all. It means less nominal wage growth. That can and does happen without an increase in even job losses, let alone unemployment. (You can have job losses with constant or even increasing employment.)

That seems extremely hypothetical. Sure, in specific anecdotal places/times wages got frozen and employment stayed fixed, but I don't think _anyone_ expects that to happen at a national level if the policy goal of the day is to "soften labor conditions". The expectation is higher unemployment. I think most people understand this.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#48

Post by der-erlkonig »

Hearing that a lot of Community teams were let go, including the teams responsible for tutorials. Seems obvious DigitalOcean doesn't care about developers anymore. But this has been obvious for a while now. I guess their value "Our Community is bigger than just us" only matters when profits are up.

Pour one out for DigitalOcean. It's the end of an era.

Re: Tell HN: DigitalOcean is doing layoffs

#50

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Octoth0rpe wrote: post #46
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Softening of labor conditions is pretty directly saying "Increase unemployment" Not at all. It means less nominal wage growth. That can and does happen without an increase in even job losses, let alone unemployment. (You can have job losses with constant or even increasing employment.)

That seems extremely hypothetical. Sure, in specific anecdotal places/times wages got frozen and employment stayed fixed, but I don't think _anyone_ expects that to happen at a national level if the policy goal of the day is to "soften labor conditions". The expectation is higher unemployment. I think most people understand this.

> seems extremely hypothetical

It’s literally what we’re seeing right now. It’s not the norm, but it’s precedented[1], most recently in America in the 90s.

[1] http://pombo.free.fr/phillips1958.pdf Figure 1

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