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Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

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Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#51

Post by insane_dreamer »

neoromantique wrote: post #7
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This seems similar in a sense. They exist in very similar segments portions of their respective industries serving very similar customer demographics (in North America). Naturally there is going to be quite a bit of evolutionary convergence.

Are there though? Toyota is never perceived as a luxury brand, it is associated with quality, reliability and maintainability. Something that you can hardly say about Apple.

I would say the first 2 qualities are definitely associated with Apple esp compared to other phones and laptops.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#52

Post by fomine3 »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #45
rr808 wrote: post #31

Lots of people saying Toyota missed the boat on EVs. I'm not convinced the technology, infrastructure or battery supply is ready for true mass production of EVs. Toyota makes 10 million cars a year, they'll be selling good EVs soon enough to put Tesla to shame.

I think Toyota's issues will just be supply chain around battery packs. They have already been designing and engineering hybrids for a decade or more. I don't think its a revolutionary change for them to remove combustion engine and accessories and go with all electric motors plus larger battery packs. If anything it might simplify internal designs. I'd rather they flow this through their internal typical processes a…

It was my thought before bZ4X was released. After I read reviews about it, I'm not sure.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#53

Post by sokoloff »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #46
rr808 wrote: post #31

Lots of people saying Toyota missed the boat on EVs. I'm not convinced the technology, infrastructure or battery supply is ready for true mass production of EVs. Toyota makes 10 million cars a year, they'll be selling good EVs soon enough to put Tesla to shame.

As an owner of BEV (Skoda Enyaq) I agree with this sentiment. My experience is that BEVs are expensive to purchase and expensive to use. This is a niche car for rich people, not Toyota Prius for common folk. I am currently getting rid of the car and going back to ICE because my whole experience was a painful joke. Toyota is getting ridiculed today, but they will be last one who will be laughing, when prices for BEV a…

I've had a Nissan LEAF for 8.5 years. It was more expensive to buy than the alternative I was considering (a used ICE), but wasn't that much more expensive than a comparable new car (ignoring incentives, which made the LEAF cheaper). Plenty of people were spending ~$30K on new 4-door sedans in 2014.

The running costs have been noticeably lower, driven by lower (almost non-existent) maintenance costs. I'm about to buy two tires for it, but other than that, my #1 maintenance expense has been wiper blades and #2 expense washer fluid.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#54

Post by fomine3 »

neoromantique wrote: post #7
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This seems similar in a sense. They exist in very similar segments portions of their respective industries serving very similar customer demographics (in North America). Naturally there is going to be quite a bit of evolutionary convergence.

Are there though? Toyota is never perceived as a luxury brand, it is associated with quality, reliability and maintainability. Something that you can hardly say about Apple.

Apple iPhone is not only luxury brand but also reliability brand.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#55

Post by abakker »

sokoloff wrote: post #53
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an owner of BEV (Skoda Enyaq) I agree with this sentiment. My experience is that BEVs are expensive to purchase and expensive to use. This is a niche car for rich people, not Toyota Prius for common folk. I am currently getting rid of the car and going back to ICE because my whole experience was a painful joke. Toyota is getting ridiculed today, but they will be last one who will be laughing, when prices for BEV a…

I've had a Nissan LEAF for 8.5 years. It was more expensive to buy than the alternative I was considering (a used ICE), but wasn't that much more expensive than a comparable new car (ignoring incentives, which made the LEAF cheaper). Plenty of people were spending ~$30K on new 4-door sedans in 2014. The running costs have been noticeably lower, driven by lower (almost non-existent) maintenance costs. I'm about to buy…

AND!!! compared to a similar sized car with an anemic little 4 cylinder, the leaf is much better to drive, IMO. (I have a 2020 model). Its not a mercedes, but the torque off the line is so much better.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#56

Post by clouddrover »

speedgoose wrote: post #49
urduntupu wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota is building one of the most reliable and robust cars for the masses. With attitude to build cars they will be competitive for very long.

But Toyota isn’t on top of the reliability rankings.

Toyota scored 1st and 2nd (Toyota and Lexus) in Consumers reports 2022 reliability rankings: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...

Lexus is number one in JD Power's 2023 rankings: https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehi...

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#57

Post by qclibre22 »

speedgoose wrote: post #49
urduntupu wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota is building one of the most reliable and robust cars for the masses. With attitude to build cars they will be competitive for very long.

But Toyota isn’t on top of the reliability rankings.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf... : "Toyota, Lexus, and BMW are the top three most reliable brands in our annual auto reliability brand rankings"

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/consumer-reports-reliabil... : 5 of top 10 are Toyota

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#58

Post by Dalewyn »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #47
Dalewyn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy to bet it's not happening. Japan is far too busy fighting amongst themselves and/or catering to themselves first and foremost. South Korea, Taiwan, and China slayed Japan because they played for keeps and pulled no punches. Japan simply does not have the correct mindset to deliberately (re)conquer and succeed. If this sounds brutal and/or flippant, allow me to say that I'm saying this as a Japanese-American…

But don’t Toyota and Honda still own the sedan market in the US (Corolla/Prius/Camry/Civic/Accord)? I’m pretty sure they’re stronger than the Koreans in the compact/midsize SUV market too (CRV, RAV4). Koreans might be stronger elsewhere, not sure.

Cars are one of the few industries Japan still holds the crown of, but if past track records in other industries are anything to go by I expect that a changing of the crown is only a matter of time.

Anyone who is familiar with computing history should know of Japan's practically disasterous fall from grace in nearly everything related to the computer industry. I've also seen that exact cycle of falling play out countless times in their other industries.

I'm sick and tired of Japan continuing to lose and eat dirt, I would be ecstatic to be proven wrong. But Japan just doesn't have the mindset to (re)win customers in the 21st century.

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#59

Post by kube-system »

speedgoose wrote: post #49
urduntupu wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota is building one of the most reliable and robust cars for the masses. With attitude to build cars they will be competitive for very long.

But Toyota isn’t on top of the reliability rankings.

They are consistently at the top of reliability rankings. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...

Re: Shoichiro Toyoda, who turned Toyota into global automaker, has died

#60

Post by jacquesm »

pornel wrote: post #44
rr808 wrote: post #31

Lots of people saying Toyota missed the boat on EVs. I'm not convinced the technology, infrastructure or battery supply is ready for true mass production of EVs. Toyota makes 10 million cars a year, they'll be selling good EVs soon enough to put Tesla to shame.

Their current offering is "meh" from the EV perspective. It doesn't look like their experience with small-battery low-voltage hybrids gave them skills and experience to execute a good BEV. ICE reliability is a different game than batteries, efficiency, and software game of BEVs. I think there's a high chance that Toyota will be sidelined by EV-first automakers from Korea and China just like US automakers were sidelin…

Good thing Europe doesn't produce cars any more.
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