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BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

theguardian.com

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Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Meanwhile, Hindu nationalists have been courting allies against their Leftist antagonists, which sometimes results in strange connections to Western white nationalists", writes the Taki's Magazine contributor. Perhaps in this one instance, the West's notion of what liberal democracy should look like is correct. Not every idea the liberal west has is, but the alternatives to these two ideas are horrible.

The connection to white nationalism is specious. Everyone in this story is brown. The differences are about beliefs and culture, not skin color. It also projects western circumstances onto places where it doesn’t make sense. Multiculturalism is a cultural adaptation to America being a post-colonial, post-slavery, immigrant nation. In the rest of the west it’s an adaptation to post-colonial immigration patterns. The m…

In the rest of the west it’s an adaptation to post-colonial immigration patterns.

I don't think even a cursory look at the history of Europe in the last few hundred years bears that out - you can probably start at the peace of Westphalia and keep going to the current war in Ukraine. The connection to white nationalism is not specious, it's precisely because it's a form of ethno-nationalism.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#392

Honestly, a lot of the documentary is a mixture of interviews and CCTV camera footage with a fairly even handed narrative on the top – it, by itself, isn't that shocking and certainly isn't presented in a particularly sensationalist way. I'm amazed by the reaction it has generated. Yes, there's some post-colonial history there and it doesn't look great that it's the BBC that has made it, as opposed to, say, a US or c…

[deleted]

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#393
post #133

The bizarre thing is how balanced the documentary actually is if you watch it. Many senior BJP officials are given plenty of time to defend their case. It focuses on provable events, things which were captured on video or public legal proceedings. If this has received such extreme backlash, I'd hate to see what happens to an actual opinionated news outlet

My biggest gripe with the documentary is that it simplifies things too much, and in some cases IMHO even misrepresented things.

The way it presents things is, crudely put, "Hindus and Muslims were living happily together in India, and then Modi came along, stoked tensions, and things all went south". While Modi definitely played a part and has much to answer for, things are significantly more complex than that. "Muslims set pilgrims on fire during the Godhra train burning" accusation/assumption – which probably isn't true – didn't come out of thin air, as such things did happen before.[1]

One example of what I considered serious misrepresentation is (quote from the documentary) "In June last year, a BJP spokeswoman made comments about the Prophet Muhammad on TV that angered Muslims in India and around the world". Curiously, it doesn't say what the "comments" were, so I looked it up and they were really mild:

"I want to ask those with affection for the Prophet that at the age of 53, he married a 6-year-old girl Aisha and then at the age of 56, he consummated that relationship with 9-year-old Aisha ... does such relationship not come under the category of rape?" [2]

Which is a long-standing and common criticism, and the ages are generally accepted by Muslim scholars as well. And the "around the world" means the usual religio-fascist countries that are angered whenever someone criticised their religion; you know, the type of people who think that someone getting beheaded for showing a cartoon or stabbed in the eye for writing a book is just a fantastic thing.

Yet, the way it's presented in the documentary leaves the impression that she said something vile and horribly Islamophobic. She did no such thing. Yet she was suspended from the BJP, seemingly mostly to placate violent threats from some Muslims. Several people died in the protests over those comments. The person who made the remarks had to have security due to death threats.

There's a bunch of things like this where I felt it presented a rather myopic view of things. Not false exactly, but not the full story, either.

One could counter by saying that the film was only intended to examine Modi's role, and isn't supposed to be a full examination of the full conflict. But I think one needs to understand at least the basics of the full conflict and context to examine Modi's role in it.

Of course, none of this justifies India's response to the film. But I did not like the documentary, and did not consider it all that balanced. Yes, BJP officials were given ample time, but by focusing on only a specific set of events instead of a more complete picture it was quite balanced.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Chamba_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Wandhama_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Amarnath_pilgrimage_massa... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Kishtwar_massacre and more

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Muhammad_remarks_controve...

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#394
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not only Sharp, the BBC is widely known for being partisan https://www.medialens.org/2019/the-arrogance-of-bbc-news/ Of course "most corrupt organization in the world" is hyperbole, and I wouldn't discount this specific investigation on BJP (but I have limited interest in that, since I haven't been to India in years) But blaming others of whataboutism is harmful, since it stifles deserved criticism. Es…

Tories hate the BBC for being a hive of lefties, and slowly strangle its source of funds; Labour hate the BBC for being partisan to Tories, and will loudly shout they're being ignored at every turn. Apart from a handful of highly-visible figures (Dimbleby, Kuenssberg, Neil), who are easily ignored, the truth is somewhat in the middle. Occasionally too much in the middle, like on Brexit, but in the middle nonetheless.

The article is a bit long, rambling, and rankly not very well written, but it's definitely not a "Tory complains left-wing bias in BBC"-type of article.

Example:

"And here we arrive at a truly awesome, structural bias that is barely guessed at by journalists themselves. The fact is that it is simply understood by ‘mainstream’ media at election time that foreign policy – especially our leaders’ high crimes – is somehow unaccountably, inexplicably, irrationally, not an issue the electorate need trouble its pretty little head about. Even after the devastating, illegal 2003 invasion-occupation of Iraq, with the crime still fully underway, foreign policy barely featured as an election issue in 2005.

Corbyn was presented, relentlessly, as a moral monster, as a threat to humanity on the basis of miniscule, in fact non-existent, evidence. But Johnson and the Tories, and Corbyn’s Blairite enemies, escaped all scrutiny – for the simple reason that their very real crimes have been declared a non-issue by an awesomely corrupt system of media corporations serving the power of which they are an integral part."

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#395

I most likely wouldn't have bothered with the documentary. But oh boy do I wanna see it now - what is it that Modi doesn't want me to see about him? Definite watch for me!

== link redacted, contact me if you want it == My great-grandparents were victims of pogroms and my grandfather's family was killed by the nazis. The BBC doesn't go far enough in explaining why someone who led ethnic massacres isn't fit to lead a country.

Who "led ethnic massacres"?

Why did you redact the link? Seems a bit odd for such a specific and strong accusation against some unknown person?

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#396

Is it just me, or are authoritarian regimes on the rise world-wide?

I am not sure about worldwide. I see no trends in Latin America or Africa. Notably, the Mexican president recently decided not to pursue constitutional changes to lengthen his rule, despite his supporters calling for that. And despite a stressful transfer of power from Bolsonaro to Lula in Brazil, it did go through without major bloodshed. But Israel, Turkiye, and India are in a bad state. Netanyahu, Erdogan, and Mod…

It depends a bit which time-frame you use as well. Taiwan and Indonesia have become more democratic since the 90s; Balkan countries (former Yugoslavia) are doing mostly okay today. Possibly some other countries as well.

Russia had a "decade of democracy", which also failed quite spectacularly. It doesn't really have a long democratic tradition that you see in other countries.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#397
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

== link redacted, contact me if you want it == My great-grandparents were victims of pogroms and my grandfather's family was killed by the nazis. The BBC doesn't go far enough in explaining why someone who led ethnic massacres isn't fit to lead a country.

Who "led ethnic massacres"? Why did you redact the link? Seems a bit odd for such a specific and strong accusation against some unknown person?

The link was redacted once I'd allowed about 32 Gb worth of illegal downloads off my private server, elucidating which known person led which ethnic massacres.

[edit] please review the context of this thread and/or watch the BBC documentary in question for a deeper understanding of the topic.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#398
post #393
post #133

The bizarre thing is how balanced the documentary actually is if you watch it. Many senior BJP officials are given plenty of time to defend their case. It focuses on provable events, things which were captured on video or public legal proceedings. If this has received such extreme backlash, I'd hate to see what happens to an actual opinionated news outlet

My biggest gripe with the documentary is that it simplifies things too much, and in some cases IMHO even misrepresented things. The way it presents things is, crudely put, "Hindus and Muslims were living happily together in India, and then Modi came along, stoked tensions, and things all went south". While Modi definitely played a part and has much to answer for, things are significantly more complex than that. "Musl…

i really wish they made the documentary correctly, especially given how much time they had since the events to work on this.

i get the pushback from the current administration for any media criticism, but i am surprised by how many indians are unaware of these events. i hate to see them only get an incomplete picture.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#399

It’s worth noting that many companies such as Apple are diversifying from China due to the overreach of the political powers, but they’re moving over to India where the same thing is happening. Strange.

foxconn had seen labour protests in both Indian and Chinese locations, in the former before the latter in recent memory.

don't forget the american stance on india-pakistan conflicts during the cold war either. the west can do as they please with sanctions against india. they cannot be so liberal with china, however.

the eu, for example, puts a lot of restrictions on indian drugs and produce in the name of "regulations" and gets away with it.

at the end of the day, the people of india can have a "surprised pikachu" revelation about their current leader and choose to change him with someone else comes the election time. you cannot say the same about the other place. the west can influence on the same as well, if they so wish.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modi is scared of BBC otherwise he should have banned BBC like RT.com in the West.

This is a terrible analogy. RT.com is a reliable purveyor of conspiracy theories and incendiary lies. The BBC's examination of Narendra Modi's well-documented behavior leading up to, during and after the Gujarat riots is well-supported by other media and academic sources.

Haha, a truly objective analysis of both media conglomerates with no a-priori biases would show that the BBC is just as reliable a purveyor as RT.
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