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Why I'm a Pirate

ploum.net

201–210 of 527 posts

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#201

This is such bullshit, I really wish I could downvote this sort of post. If you don't agree with the methods used by companies to sell their products DON'T then take it anyway, you're showing people WANT the product but aren't willing to pay, so what's the best solution? Make it harder to pirate / try to block pirating. This guy and everyone else who refuses to just not consume media they can't get on terms they and…

I agree with you so much. To this person and all the others you don't have some God given right to the content they produce/deliver. Instead of pirating go without. Will life stop if you don't watch the latest episode of Community? Probably. Give it a go. If you die I have dibs on your $2000 Macbook Pro, $800 iPhone, $250 Sennheiser headphones, etc. The very phrase 'Because you are messing with my life' in this conte…

I agree with your sentiment, but it seems you have a contradiction here: " (All I have left is to make a list of the music I have and listen to in order to delete it all and slowly purchase it, which I've started doing). I either pay for something, borrow it or go without."

If you really believe what you say, you'd delete all your pirated music right now. Either that, or you might modify your views a bit.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#202
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pirating is not right. Most people would agree with that, too." The biggest problem I see today is that there are so many people who aren't even bothering to justify pirating, and instead insist that it is natural, good and just -- not just as a means to get access to content they otherwise wouldn't be able to, but for everything. To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply…

> To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply don't have any other access to. American shows that aren't broadcast overseas, for example; pirate away. Really? The problem I have with this argument is that you remove control of the creation from the creator. What if they are in the process of trying to make a distribution deal while people cut off demand at the knees by steal…

> If the food is too expensive at your favourite restaurant, you don't pull a runner after the meal, you simply don't eat there, and you hope that in time the owners will realize and make adjustments. But if they choose not to, then that is their right.

Stuff like this really hurts your argument, IMO. When you eat at a restaurant and then don't pay, that restaurant loses a substantial amount of money. When you pirate something, the creator loses zero money.

If we're going to discuss piracy, let's discuss piracy, not other crimes which may appear to be somewhat related. Otherwise you get completely bizarre arguments like this: http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l605vu5xV11qcw66ho1_500.jp...

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these seems likely to be better at either producing high quality works or distributing them to wide audiences than an economic system such as copyright I think that was a common sentiment at the end of each "age". How to go from here, all the alternatives suck from our point of view. I really like (2) myself, but it might not be everyone's cup of tea. But no matter what, copyright is harder and harder to enfo…

> I really like (2) myself, but it might not be everyone's cup of tea. I think there's potential there, but there would need to be a dramatic cultural shift so it didn't just become a case of anything "good enough" was done, with no meaningful incentive to put the final polish to turn good works into great ones. Take a look at the Open Source software community today: it's full of "good enough" products, which do the…

but which often lack the power, flexibility or usability of commercial software because no-one wanted to write the edge cases or spend the time doing tedious polishing-up work.

Yes, the edge cases, the personalization, the polishing. There will always be work in that. Adapting systems to their specific surroundings. Every place, every person is unique, and has specific demands. That's what I meant with the cookie-cutter stuff going away.

it would be relatively easy to enforce copyright on the Internet with modern technology

Sure, but is just as easy to avoid copyright enforcement with the current technology. And for those desperate there is always the analog hole. That kind of summarizes the DRM "war".

compulsory mass surveillance and automated charges

Because that'd effectively be an Orwellian world. So we'd need to go to a total surveillance state, centrally controlled world, just to make sure things keep working as they do now. Just to make some people happy at the expense of the rest. That's not only inhuman, but very unstable as well.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#204
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It might make you feel better about it, but it really > doesn't change the fact that you're stealing something > of value Copyright infringement is not stealing. Separately, the person who worked hard to produce whatever you're buying is reaping a fraction of a percentage point of whatever you're spending, and that's only if the distributor hasn't found a way to screw them out of that entirely (or else they've been…

I agree with mgkimsal's comments above/below. Let's not muddy the debate with pedantic discussions over the definition of "stealing". You knew what I meant when I used the word. With regard to your second point, I again argue that there needs to be a separation between the debate over how copyright holders operate and the legalities of piracy. Failure to do that means that the analysis breaks down when we're not talk…

I don't really see it as pedantic. It's important to oppose persons who characterize copyright infringement (at least as it relates to filesharing) as "stealing" because that misinformation is the argument that the pushers of SOPA/PIPA and other bad things hide behind. We cannot tolerate the analog because when it promulgates across techie lines into the mass of "normal people", they don't have the context necessary to consider the implications and judge independently whether the event constitutes a legitimate theft or not.

We need to emphasize that filesharing is a form of sampling for most people, and that they would never buy 99% of the content that they fileshare for free, and that they often do buy that 1%, and that even if the consumer doesn't buy your content/distribution, you're still better off for the potential word-of-mouth promotion and other exposure facilitated.

In reality, filesharing operates on the same principles as YouTube, which the studios and record companies also attempted to kill as just another pirate avenue before it was legitimized by Google and entered mainstream acceptance; they now (mostly) see YouTube as a promotional platform with the same understanding that it's about "sampling", that most people won't buy 99% of the stupid videos they watch on YouTube, but that some people will buy that 1%. The RIAA/MPAA members use YouTube in hopes that their content will be that 1% that provokes individuals to go purchase related merchandise.

The only difference is that YouTube makes the "filesharing" piece invisible and people feel that they are sharing videos instead of files, and this makes YouTube tenable for mainstream use. BitTorrent and other filesharing networks operate on the same set of principles, but they are harder to use and control, so they remain targeted when there is essentially no difference from a consumer standpoint other than barrier to entry.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#205
post #143

OP, if this is just a whine about how unfair the world is and how special you are, then fine. But if it's an attempt to make something happen (stop SOPA), then it's not working and is in fact counterproductive, so please just STFU. You are offsetting the good hard work of so many others trying to make the right things happen. Make no mistake about it, we have reached the point where the best course of action is proba…

Perhaps your "life is unfair" line could be extended to the artists who feel it's their natural right to take advantage of the diminishing costs of digital distribution.

They aren't charging to get the song physically to you. They're charging you for the right to play it. Up until now, that has been easiest via payment on transfer of the physical good. Now that we have new mechanisms, they're still allowed to set the terms under which you may use their music.

For example, radio stations pay more. They may have the physical CD in their grasp, but they have to pay to play it on air. DVD shops get charged more per video because they rent it out repeatedly - they don't just use the same home version as you do and pocket the difference. Changing the distribution mechanism to radio stations and DVD shops to digital doesn't change the concept of copyright owners being able to set the terms of use for their content.

Now, would I like a whole new approach? Sure. I long for ways to reinvent the industry, like crowdsourcing aspects of music production, marketing etc. There will be many ways to make a living from music in the future. But that doesn't mean I think it's ok to just make up the rules as I go along and copy anything that I fancy.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right but do you really want to return to the 90s when CDs cost $20 each and you had to carry around a 100 CDs instead of an mp3 player? Or to the 80s when we used lo-fi tapes instead? The labels would love this. It shouldn't be required of just the RIAA to use technology properly but everyone. If someone makes music you like, and they're not attempting to rob, respect them. $1 is not much for a song you enjoy…

I don't care what the labels do. If they fell they cant make money that way then they should probably stay out of the digital business model. But the truth of course is that they saw huge benefits throughout the years as it became cheaper and cheaper for them to produce and distribute the music. Where is your sympathy for all the truckers, records store people etc. that lost their jobs because of digitalization? I pe…

I'm trying to understand your point. Are you for digital music being available or not?

>Where is your sympathy for all the truckers, records store people etc. that lost their jobs because of digitalization?

Of course I do have sympathy for them but humanity has to move forward. We are living in a disruptive age – much like those in the beginning of the Industrial Age. Humanity will need to adjust. This really is another subject for another story and doesn't hold relevance to the topic of piracy.

>I personally have more sympathy for them, the musicians will always have the music. Whether they will be able to live from it is another thing.

This makes no sense. You are condemning musicians to the same fate as those you mentioned. The only difference is that potential future truckers and HS/college students at record stores won't suffer because there will be new jobs created but the artist always will.

The world does not need more starving artists.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#207
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pirating is not right. Most people would agree with that, too." The biggest problem I see today is that there are so many people who aren't even bothering to justify pirating, and instead insist that it is natural, good and just -- not just as a means to get access to content they otherwise wouldn't be able to, but for everything. To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply…

> To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply don't have any other access to. American shows that aren't broadcast overseas, for example; pirate away. Really? The problem I have with this argument is that you remove control of the creation from the creator. What if they are in the process of trying to make a distribution deal while people cut off demand at the knees by steal…

Leaving restaurant without paying = stealing. Downloading = fraud.

One is hurting a business by creating direct loss, the other one creates no direct loss (and it is not clear it is hurting anyone...)

So according to you, us customers, should shut up and let them dictate how we spend our money? You should come back to reality, customers have the money, and if we say "There is a problem with the way the entertainment industry works", then there is a problem.

And the lack of offering is a legitimate reason to "pirate", I have tons of hands on examples where piracy does not hurt in any way the industry:

I lived 5years in North America, got used to certain shows, enjoy some of those shows, and have no way of seeing them from my current country, so because the entertainment industry fails to realize that we live in a global world, I should just shut up and take it? I don't think so, so i occasionally download, i download something that i had no access to, something that was not and would have never been available in my country.

The internet and file sharing offers a channel that otherwise would not be available to a lot of people, and the entertainment industry (as well as you) are still living decades in the past. We live in a globalized world, we expect everything to be globalized and we are right to expect so.

And please could we stop with the "creators", "artist", it is not about them and as never been. Piracy does not hurt them in any way, it never has. The entertainment industry does, by taking ridiculous amounts of money out of every sale, deal, show, leaving most of the bands in "debt" when they decide to drop them because they didn't "reach targets" (which is another layer of bullshit right there).

It is time for some people here on HN, to stop make this issue about the artist and creators, because it is not about them, it is about a system that is profoundly broken, and that the internet finished.

It is time for a change in the way the entertainment industry works, the way copyright works, the way artists/creators are remunerated, not a time to point fingers at each others and play on semantics or other fallacies.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#208
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pirating is not right. Most people would agree with that, too." The biggest problem I see today is that there are so many people who aren't even bothering to justify pirating, and instead insist that it is natural, good and just -- not just as a means to get access to content they otherwise wouldn't be able to, but for everything. To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply…

> To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply don't have any other access to. American shows that aren't broadcast overseas, for example; pirate away. Really? The problem I have with this argument is that you remove control of the creation from the creator. What if they are in the process of trying to make a distribution deal while people cut off demand at the knees by steal…

> The legitimate option is GO WITHOUT IT. You have no RIGHT to anything here...

Actually, you do. That is precisely the point of copyright - all creative works are (well, were, before the advent of the major content companies in the US) implicitly understood as the property of the people. Thus, in order to promote continued creative works, an artificial incentive has to be created to encourage additional creation, e.g. copyright. Copyright doesn't create rights, it postpones them.

This is what few people understand anymore about copyright and the original view of the creative process. Enlightenment ideals held that all creative processes were the right of the people as an extension of the mere fact of being an intelligent being - creative activity is required for effective participation in any human society. It is an inborn part of being human.

I'm not saying this to justify the OP's comment about pirating something not available in your country, although that would be a reasonably valid interpretation of a human's right to the product of other human's creative endeavors. If you had 100% certainty that the producer had no intention of distributing that content in your country, you are entirely within your right to find it another way.

The problem is that the content producers these days would claim the opposite - and they do the entirety of the human species, and the whole history and future of human civilization, a disservice by claiming so. I am not engaging in hyperbole here. Even today, we continue to benefit from the knowledge and creations of those thousands of years ago who gave us amazing works. All creative works today are possible due to the works that came before them. The fallout of the infinite lockdown on content ownership that occurs today will not be known for hundreds of years.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#209
post #143

OP, if this is just a whine about how unfair the world is and how special you are, then fine. But if it's an attempt to make something happen (stop SOPA), then it's not working and is in fact counterproductive, so please just STFU. You are offsetting the good hard work of so many others trying to make the right things happen. Make no mistake about it, we have reached the point where the best course of action is proba…

Great comment, although I'd like to add that I believe pirating isn't really an occupation of greed. It's about convenience. Finding and downloading movies is a pain in the ass. But driving 5km away to rent or buy a piece of plastic and packaging is even more of a pain in the ass.

For the past year I've been paying for Netflix, and while the selection isn't always the greatest, the sheer thought of pirating has gone down considerably.

Do I want to pay $8/mo or do I want to spend time finding, downloading, dealing with codecs, categorization and management of movies that I will probably delete later?

If Netflix could offer every movie, every tv show and/or a music subscription that worked on any device, would I ever want to pirate? Even if it was $20/mo?

As producers of creative works, we need to understand the psychology of our audience, more than we need to understand the economy of the industry.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#210
This is just another in a long-line of poorly reasoned reasons against SOPA.

I don't know if this article touched on the entire "we'll pay for cheap streaming thing", but I've heard it enough times and think it's relevant enough to discuss in this topic.

I'm curious to how much time people are really spending thinking about things from the perspective of the movie studios. For users, it's easy to say "charge me $10/month and I'll gladly pay". From the movie studio's perspective, that probably sounds AWFUL. Does the music industry really like paying fractions of a penny per play on Pandora, Spotify, etc.? Absolutely not. For them, however, it's better than the alternative. For the movie studios, it's not. At least not yet.

The movie business model is designed to price discriminate. They charge consumers on a sliding scale. When a movie first comes out, it's only available in theaters at the cost of, let's say, $10 per person. Then it moves to the second-run theaters at $5 per person. Then it goes to video for $20 to own, or $5 / household to rent. Then it goes to on-demand/redbox/itunes/etc. for $5/6 to rent. Then it goes to premium cable, where money is distributed via pre-arranged agreements. Then it becomes an "archival" video and can be rented for $2/3 at a store or on-demand.

The movie studios are going for maximum profits by attempting to charge people the exact price they're willing to pay, when they're willing to pay it. Of course, they have to settle for inefficiencies because they cannot create a perfect discrimination model.

Regarding the pedants of the "stealing" thing, what you're stealing when you pirate something is missed revenues. Just because you're taking a digital good instead of a physical one should have no effect on the outcome of your actions. If you steal a physical CD that normally costs $12.99, you're not stealing $12.99 worth of stock from the music industry. The margins are purposefully high on CD's, and you're stealing those margins, not $12.99 worth of a physical product.

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