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Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

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Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#111

Post by mooreds »

malfist wrote: post #48
kungito wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my first job our manager was fired around the time his partner died of cancer and he was left with 2 little kids. He was slacking but also they knew about the whole situation. He was there for over 10 years. That changed me forever

I have a friend who spent 30 years working for a factory building aircraft for the military. One year, a new lead manager comes in and decides he wants everyone on the floor to have a college degree and fires my friend and the six other people there without college degrees. It really messed up my friend, he was really close to a comfortable retirement, but had to borrow against his 401k to make it through until he co…

Wow, that is a heart-wrenching story. What a shame.

> It's all about the next quarter.

Not sure that follows from your friend's story. In that particular case, it seems to have been about bad management, unless having only college-degreed folks on the floor improved short term financials.

Definitely an example of a short sighted decision, though.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#112

Post by mooreds »

JohnFen wrote: post #98
wonderwonder wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much take a mercenary approach to my jobs. At my very first software job I remember seeing a let go employee walking sadly through the office with a box of his possessions under one arm and a potted plant in the other. Since then I have brought nothing personal into work. If I'm let go I just have to grab my keys and I'm out. Work is something I do to earn money. If companies can replace people for less or cut…

> I would love to work in an environment where I felt valued as a person but I have yet to find that. Start your own business.

I have friends who did that. They built a consulting company where they get to build the culture they want.

Those kinds of companies (the examples I know of are small, I enjoyed Small Giants for more profiles of these kinds of companies: https://www.amazon.com/Small-Giants-Companies-Instead-10th-A...

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#113

Post by librish »

buggy6257 wrote: post #110
librish wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's OK to be taken advantage of a little bit .

…why? Sorry I’m not being flippant here I mean it. Why would this be okay? What is the reason that I would want someone to be able to intentionally take advantage of me as a person in a way that benefits them but not me when I have no personal connection to them? Moreover, why would I let a corporation or other business do that? Im genuinely curious where your thinking is at with this and hope you’ll elaborate beyond…

Staying emotionally guarded for 9 years is a bad trade-off with having a layoff feel less bad.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#114

Post by librish »

Manuel_D wrote: post #99
librish wrote: post #40

Reading the responses to some of these posts it feels like the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction in the "the company is not your family" discussion. Yes, if you expect corporate America to always treat you fairly you're going to end up disappointed. But spending 9 years at a place and not even giving a little bit of yourself to the company seems even worse. It's OK to think that your boss cares about…

I think the broader point is, giving 40+ hours per week to a company is already giving enough of yourself to the company. I think it's great for people to put in extra effort and time, if you're inspired to do it. Of course, you should care about your boss and co-worker as people and become friends with them. But never forget they're co-workers, not family. At the end of the day, labor demands change and if it's in t…

In the context of this post what does "But never forget they're co-workers, not family." mean?

What should the author have done differently and how would that have changed things?

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#115

Post by icedchai »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #42
twawaaay wrote: post #13

I wonder if large companies recognise they are shitting in the pond they are floating in. As somebody with over quarter of century of experience managing and hiring people I notice how candidates change over time (trying to adjust for how I change myself). I notice people care less about the company they work for and, honestly, it is more and more difficult to find arguments against. This whole trend of optimising ev…

I don’t see a reason to even report money being literally wasted in my current jobs. There is an unused cloud service burning money at one of my jobs. Tens of thousands kind of money. Make a case for me even bothering to tell someone about it. You can’t.

I always mention the waste because it feels like the right thing to do. I explain that we can reduce costs, but it will require some amount of engineering effort. Many times I get "it's not costing enough to worry about, focus on features." Of course, when the shit hit the fan like in 2020, they wanted all that cost reduced as fast as possible...

If it's something simple like an unused service, I'll just shut it off.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#116

Post by Beaver117 »

twawaaay wrote: post #13

I wonder if large companies recognise they are shitting in the pond they are floating in. As somebody with over quarter of century of experience managing and hiring people I notice how candidates change over time (trying to adjust for how I change myself). I notice people care less about the company they work for and, honestly, it is more and more difficult to find arguments against. This whole trend of optimising ev…

I'm only 25 and have had 6 jobs. The longest I've stayed at a company was a year. Just the way we have grown up in the industry, all the smart people giving advice on the internet say to not bother getting raises or promotions, just go and interview and it'll be much more efficient. And it has, I've gotten massive pay bumps every time. How can you for stay loyal to a company when they give a measly 3% raise? And make promotions ridiculously hard? Especially when that company will lay you off after years and escort you from the building with security?

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#117

Post by candyman »

I wonder if we created the companies that we deserve? I worked at IBM a long time ago and they spent a ton of time and money developing employees. I was there when there was still a concept of “lifetime” employment. IBM was expensive but we smothered customers with support. Price was a factor but we still could compete on quality, support, service and I hesitate to say it, an actual relationship with our customer. We laugh at the joke now when someone says “if it was $2 cheaper I’d fly on a kite!” Ha, ha, LOL. Something about just caring about price and returns on investment has made it harder for companies to invest in their own people. Now that employees will jump for $$ the companies can also ask “why invest if the employee will just leave us in a second for more money?” There are still organizations out there that care but I think they are fewer and fewer. And none can probably be public. Like IBM in the 1980’s I think Twilio hired and spent like a drunken sailor because they could get away with it. IBM fired around 25K people at the beginning of the downsizing in 1988 or so and we didn’t even notice. Then another 25K or 50K and still, no difference. I think they topped out at 450K people. There were 100K people who basically didn’t do anything productive.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#118

Post by throwawaysalome »

giardini wrote: post #87

I need a break: I read this as "Thoughts on getting laid after nine years at Twilio..." and my first though was "...and I thought my job was bad!"

Same here. "Being laid off" is better here. The bigram "getting laid" occurs frequently enough to trigger an instinctive pattern match.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#119

Post by rongenre »

vsareto wrote: post #84
goostavos wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I would love to work in an environment where I felt valued as a person but I have yet to find that CAN that even exist? The mercenary approach seems to me the only one that doesn't fall prey to living in a fantasy about how things "Should" be -- there is only the way they are: it's a business relationship. Younger me thought otherwise. I was big into startup culture, enjoyed the comradery of working long hours, taki…

>CAN that even exist? Fully remote lifestyle business where everyone's workload is around 12-24 hours a week with $100k+ salaries. Everyone in the company makes around the same amount (CEO to junior). Full transparency for the accounting books. Excess profits get evenly distributed to everyone. No investors to answer to. A job that gives enough time and money to do what you want in life. This is really only for peopl…

This is the kind of place I hope to work at after I hit my retirement "number".

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#120

Post by throwawaycopter »

wonderwonder wrote: post #23
twawaaay wrote: post #13

I wonder if large companies recognise they are shitting in the pond they are floating in. As somebody with over quarter of century of experience managing and hiring people I notice how candidates change over time (trying to adjust for how I change myself). I notice people care less about the company they work for and, honestly, it is more and more difficult to find arguments against. This whole trend of optimising ev…

I very much take a mercenary approach to my jobs. At my very first software job I remember seeing a let go employee walking sadly through the office with a box of his possessions under one arm and a potted plant in the other. Since then I have brought nothing personal into work. If I'm let go I just have to grab my keys and I'm out. Work is something I do to earn money. If companies can replace people for less or cut…

You just described with incredible precision my approach to jobs and career.

The only difference is that I make a point of leaving my current job in 18 to 24 months. That is the sweet spot. No matter how good or bad I think the job is. Always get a raise in the switch. Rinse and repeat. I actually avoid getting promotions in whatever is my current job, those are detrimental, seldom the raise is compatible with the increase in responsibility.

I worked for companies I liked and for companies I personally hated, the procedure is always the same. Has been working wonders for me in the past 2 decades.

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