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Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

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Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#511

Post by MrOwnPut »

georgeg23 wrote: post #510
MrOwnPut wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it would not have, as another posted, the NTSB has reported this was a bearing failure[1]. Bearing failures account for 5.9% of all train derailments[2]. It's possible to help prevent this (not fully as many things derail trains) with more sensors[3] and tighter maintenance checks. This was most likely due to a lack of maintenance. [1] https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20230214.as... [2] https://www…

In another universe, ECP brakes would have saved the day. It sounds like the Trump administration still deserves criticism for decaying train safety.

> ECP brakes would have saved the day

Citation needed.

It sounds like all administrations (especially those currently in charge) deserve criticism for not focusing on the correct regulations for train safety.

Requiring something that isn't needed doesn't help... It can hurt as it takes resources away from actual necessities, like sensors, and tighter maintenance inspections.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#512

Post by mike50 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #148
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't see a lot of people talking about this disaster getting no coverage Oh my god this is the only thing people are talking about. Please don’t do this. Let’s talk about the actual disaster instead of spinning up another useless whirlpool of meta-debate.

No it’s not? There’s one measly story way down past the fold on the NYT homepage. It’s nowhere on the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal or USA Today homepages (I cmd+F’d). There’s a tiny clip on the left of the Fox News homepage that’s tangentially about it but really about Tomi Lahren bashing Pete Buttigieg. The most prominent is the New York Post, which has a headline about it being “worse than feared” after a b…

Your comment would have credibility if three of the sources you cite weren't Murdoch mouthpieces. Also USA today is literally a printer and the AP wire service rewritten to a 5th grade level and with even more less information then the AP stories that are copy pasted.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#513

Post by MrOwnPut »

TylerE wrote: post #509
MrOwnPut wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean it was the brake. The bearing contains the brake. The axle contains the bearing. The train contains the axle. Not enough information to determine what caused the bearing to fail, bearing failures account for 5.9% of all train derailments[1]. Though we can look at common train bearing failures to get a likelihood... Most likely it was a simple lack of maintenance. It's possible to prevent this with m…

No, you e got it backwards. The train contains the bogey which contains the bearing which contains the axle.

Err yes you're right on that.

My point though is the "bearing failing" is too generic to determine what on it failed.

Sometimes the brakes are fixed to the axle, are they not? In that case it couldn't be the brake.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#514

Post by mike50 »

gowings97 wrote: post #160
Julesman wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it could seem this way. And now that's true. But when it first happened big media largely ignored it or parroted available talking points without any real attempt to do meaningful reporting. But I agree that the impact on people is more important than the media critique.

Correct - there has been a total lack of coverage after the first day or two; it's completely dropped off most front pages, barely getting a blurb at this point. Far away from the header news sections/now relegated to back pages. The EPA should be providing daily updates, and the major news outlets should be syndicating these daily updates. This is the largest land-based environmental disaster since Three Mile Island…

Yes because nuclear incident = more disaster then the anfo plant that blew up in Texas, numerous refinery explosions the BP oil rig explosion etc.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#515

Post by throwaway-blaze »

mgkimsal wrote: post #426
Maursault wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, besides the primary initiative of keeping all the wealth in the hands of a few, the secondary purpose of a Republican administration is to undo anything done by a Democratic administration. There was no way for Trump to know whether the legislation was good or bad. It could have gone either way, really.

It's felt like any republican 'rolling back' dem-initiated legislation tends to have more negative consequences for more people than positive benefits for others. I don't have any specifics in mind - if I think of any I'll edit/add here. But perhaps others have counter examples to correct my gut feeling?

So republicans are just guilty until proven innocent?

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#516

Post by throwaway-blaze »

pmezard wrote: post #480
WalterBright wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With an all-powerful government running things, you get Chernobyl.

With an all-powerful company running things, you get Bhopal.

That's a combination of an all-powerful company and a lax, easily bribed local government.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#518

Post by throwaway-blaze »

danaris wrote: post #385
olivermarks wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument against hyper capitalism causing more and more derailments is credible if you look into 'precision scheduled railroading' practices, aka shaving expense by eliminating unnecessary costs and 'optimizing Assets'. Sadly this has little to do with 'conservatives' or 'the left' and a lot more to do with our apolitical global oligarchy who own the politicians in power and many lobbying groups including 'climat…

You really don't see there being a very distinct difference between the beliefs of the left and right wings of American politics on this? You think "global oligarchy" is "apolitical", at a time when the right wing is pushing harder and harder for the very wealthy to, essentially, be able to do anything they want, while the left wing (such as it is in this country) is pushing to restrict their power and tax their weal…

By and large the wealthy in this country vote D and donate to left-wing causes and foundations and colleges. The working class (including union members, not necessarily union leaders) vote R.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#519

Post by shadowgovt »

yunwal wrote: post #508
shadowgovt wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have specific evidence of what exposure to (burned, trace amounts of) vinyl chloride might do, or its denatured byproducts (besides the HCL, which probably killed some fish), feel free to share them. An anecdote about dead chickens isn't that without a causal link (and the current rampant bird flu is a far more likely explanation). "We don't really know" is simply false. This isn't a mystery chemical; we've be…

> This isn't a mystery chemical; we've been working with the stuff since 1835, we've spilled it into the environment numerous times It has never been burned at anywhere near this quantity. There are other chemicals that can react with it. Your strawmanning isn't winning you any points here. > What is your goal... I would like for these coverups to lose their effectiveness. I'd like for executives that gamble with hum…

Then I'm sorry because this isn't the disaster you're hoping for. But take heart, people continue to use technology so another disaster will certainly come along.

> It has never been burned at anywhere near this quantity

I'm curious your source for that assertion.

https://www.csb.gov/formosa-plastics-vinyl-chloride-explosio...

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#520

Post by btilly »

e40 wrote: post #491
junofan wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying there was no possible way to get railroad safety through?

I'm saying the situation Biden has been in since he took office is very tenuous. There was a virtual tie on paper, with the VP breaking the tie, but 2 of the people on the Dem side were not at all cooperative with the agenda that Biden wanted. To say "the Dems could have done it if they wanted it" is not at all true.

Normally I'd agree with you, but not on this.

The Democrats had the option of doing nothing. The railroad workers would have had a strike for a variety of their issues (safety being high on the list), and the workers would have gotten a better deal than the one they got.

Unfortunately the strike would have to have lasted long enough and been painful enough for the train companies to accept that they had to negotiate with workers rather than trying to bargain with Congress. That's fundamentally why Congress caved - because THEY would be blamed for the economic disruption. But that doesn't change the fact that simply doing nothing would have been a better outcome for workers.

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