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Why I'm a Pirate

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Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#191

Post by bmelton »

sbarre wrote: post #183
bmelton wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pirating is not right. Most people would agree with that, too." The biggest problem I see today is that there are so many people who aren't even bothering to justify pirating, and instead insist that it is natural, good and just -- not just as a means to get access to content they otherwise wouldn't be able to, but for everything. To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply…

> To draw my line in the sand, I have no problems with people pirating works they simply don't have any other access to. American shows that aren't broadcast overseas, for example; pirate away. Really? The problem I have with this argument is that you remove control of the creation from the creator. What if they are in the process of trying to make a distribution deal while people cut off demand at the knees by steal…

I don't disagree, and in practice, I don't pirate except where encouraged by the content owners.

Admittedly, I don't know how or why that particular justification is okay with me, except that I know a number of expats who simply don't have access to American television in any other way.

I understand and agree that I'm being hypocritical, and I agree that piracy is "not okay", which is why I don't do it. However, I simply can't judge the piraters who do so out of lack of availability with the same stance that I judge those who do so casually, or as a matter of course, or because they don't agree with DRM, or because they don't like the record producer, or whatever.

Unavailability just seems like a less shallow justification to me to an act that it still equally wrong.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#192

Post by pgvoorhees »

It's fine that the OP doesn't want to pay for media. But, the OP should not take it, no matter how easy it is to do. By all means, abstain from media. But do not steal.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#193

Post by sciboy »

rdtsc wrote: post #168
gavinballard wrote: post #16

This is a series of pretty poor arguments. The author seems to be looking for reasons to justify their own piracy and conflates anger at the approach of the "copyright industry" with infringement upon peoples' rights. One of the final lines of the article, in particular, is jarring: "If I'm a pirate, it's not to have some cheap music. It is because the time has come for you to fuck off." It's fine to be angry about t…

> you're stealing something of value that someone worked hard to produce. How is it stealing if they can still have that something? You compose a song. I copy that song. You still have that song. If I'd taken away a recorder with your only master copy of it, then I would have stolen it.

I completely agree - technically.

If we invent a technology that allows us to read thoughts, should you be allowed to read them without the thinkers permission? The thinker still has their thoughts. What about disseminate them via torrents? Would that be "fair"? Is that the society we want?

What about monitoring conversations via surveillance means? The speakers still have their conversation. Should we be allowed to a) surveil anyone and b) distribute that surveillance digitally as the surveilled still have their conversation?

The time is close approaching where such questions will need to be asked and I see little difference between piracy of songs, movies or other artistic expression and the extraction and distribution of thoughts against the owners wishes. The only real difference is that the artists chose to let it out into the world in a way the pirate didn't like. One way was via concert/itunes/cd/dvd, another way could be a conversation with a friend. Both ways the pirate says they have the right to use it how they want - original thinker be damned.

In my view it comes down to respect. While technically it's not stealing, you're still an asshole for using others thoughts without their blessing.

I can imagine the day where someone hacks into your laptop, records you in a compromising position, shares it with the world and shrugs and says "how is it stealing if you still have that something"? I just copied your dignity.

Not all that can be stolen is a thing.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#194

Post by drcube »

al_james wrote: post #129
njs12345 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference? In both cases the pirate is deriving an economic benefit without directly causing an economic cost.

There is an economic cost. If even one person pirates a digital work who WOULD have paid for it had pirating not been an option, it causes a cost to the producer of the media. So there is a real cost.

And if one person buys a digital work due to piracy who otherwise would not have even known the artist existed, there is a benefit.

Do you have any evidence that the costs outweigh the benefits?

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#195

Post by HeyImAlex »

alextgordon wrote: post #153
city41 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are not willing to pay for it, then they have no right to enjoy it. In the end, it always boils down to pirates being spoiled. People never pirate to make ends meet. There is no digital content that is essential to anyone's life. People pirate because they want to be entertained but they don't want to pay for it.

So then, what if I am willing to pay for it? I would very much like to watch US TV shows. Preferably on a computer, since I don't have a TV (but on TV would be a good effort too!) Unfortunately, somebody has decided that I am not allowed to. If try to buy Hulu Plus, I am greeted with a nice message telling me to fuck off back to where I came from. Same with Netflix. Hell, I can't even watch a 2 minute clip of the Dai…

Why do you feel entitled to it in the first place? It isn't your god given right to watch community in hd at the drop of a hat. If the old gaurd isn't providing what you want then don't buy their stuff. Use your money to invest in services that ARE paving the way to the future. If the profit margins on the industry are as large as people say, it should be a race to the bottom, just like you see with artists self distributing these days.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#196

Post by etherael »

edw519 wrote: post #143

OP, if this is just a whine about how unfair the world is and how special you are, then fine. But if it's an attempt to make something happen (stop SOPA), then it's not working and is in fact counterproductive, so please just STFU. You are offsetting the good hard work of so many others trying to make the right things happen. Make no mistake about it, we have reached the point where the best course of action is proba…

I think copyright infringement by itself is unfair and impolite, but at a certain point, some organisations have taken action that probably realigns the hierarchy of acceptable behaviour when it comes to copyright infringement.

Under no circumstances ever should people actively sabotaging the freedom of expression of the entire world ever be supported by any payments from anyone, ever. Especially not the people whose world they're trying to destroy. When it comes to organisations that have lobbied for or support SOPA, piracy of their works is to me the second best step on a ladder of approaches.

1) Boycott them, there is nothing wrong with this plan, you shoot yourself in the foot a little if they made something you want and you refuse to purchase it due to principles, but it's probably the most noble of all approaches.

2) Pirate anything they produce that you wish to consume. You may be making an impolite move and breaking a law that if it were used to protect other organisations that weren't such poisonous vile scum it would be immoral to break, but at least you're not feeding the beast.

3) Actually pay them for their content, at this stage you are not breaking any laws but you are effectively contributing to their continued existence and their lobbying to destroy the world as we know it.

If absolutely NOONE picks door number three, the problem will finally be solved. And this entire debacle is all the evidence anyone should ever need that they so desperately deserve destruction.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#199

Post by paulhauggis »

cturner wrote: post #39
gavinballard wrote: post #16

This is a series of pretty poor arguments. The author seems to be looking for reasons to justify their own piracy and conflates anger at the approach of the "copyright industry" with infringement upon peoples' rights. One of the final lines of the article, in particular, is jarring: "If I'm a pirate, it's not to have some cheap music. It is because the time has come for you to fuck off." It's fine to be angry about t…

> It might make you feel better about it, but it really > doesn't change the fact that you're stealing something > of value Copyright infringement is not stealing. Separately, the person who worked hard to produce whatever you're buying is reaping a fraction of a percentage point of whatever you're spending, and that's only if the distributor hasn't found a way to screw them out of that entirely (or else they've been…

It's not stealing, it's counterfeiting, which is much worse. Here is why:

When you steal a car, that one car is stolen. No big deal. If piracy goes unchecked, over time, the perceived value of that item will go down. This is because most people will quickly and easily be able to get it for free. Revenue will go down as a result of this and instead of having the loss of an individual copy of that product, the entire product line loses money. Something that just doesn't happen with physical products.

The same principal can be applied to the news: Many newspapers are going out of business because you can get the exact same info for free from many other sources.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#200

Post by rdtsc »

sciboy wrote: post #193
rdtsc wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're stealing something of value that someone worked hard to produce. How is it stealing if they can still have that something? You compose a song. I copy that song. You still have that song. If I'd taken away a recorder with your only master copy of it, then I would have stolen it.

I completely agree - technically. If we invent a technology that allows us to read thoughts, should you be allowed to read them without the thinkers permission? The thinker still has their thoughts. What about disseminate them via torrents? Would that be "fair"? Is that the society we want? What about monitoring conversations via surveillance means? The speakers still have their conversation. Should we be allowed to…

> Not all that can be stolen is a thing.

Good example and I agree. But I think it should be called something else rather than theft. Because one issue with this is how much have you lost after something was copied. That's the law suit side of this. Grandmas are being asked to pay hundreds of thousands of $ because their grand-kids downloaded Lady Gaga songs. By calling it "stealing" they are able to convince juries and judges that this is the equivalent of grandma breaking into a bank and taking $100k worth of gold and then speeding away. You see the problem?

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