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Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

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Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#101

Post by dgacmu »

TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #68
mrsuprawsm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy worked there for 9 years. That's a really long time, longer than many posters here's entire careers (mine included), and longer than most of us will ever work at a given job. Of course he's going to be emotionally invested, and knocking him for this is a bit cruel. Not so long ago, your kids _would_ know you as someone who drives buses for the local bus company, delivers the post, or works down the mine.

This is fair take, but I do think there is an additional difference between being emotionally attached to your job, and the content of the post. I also think there's a big difference between a very high-visibility job like a bus-driver/mail-delivery-worker/mine-worker (where the labor is very accessible/visible to kids), and one in software engineering (my parents work with computers at some company?)

You give your kids half the random swag you get. You involve them by letting them see your job, etc. My older kid has eaten in Google cafeterias, comes to my office at cmu after school to hang out and do her homework there, etc. You _want_ them involved at some level. It's part of modeling being an adult.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#102

Post by soperj »

rqtwteye wrote: post #36
zerr wrote: post #19

2 hours notice - How do you handover the work? Or is there nothing to handover?

I have never seen a handover being very useful. Nobody has time to receive the handover and if the system is not a total mess, other people will get up to speed quickly as needed. Every time I have seen somebody leave or being laid off, things just moved on without much problem.

I've had the exact opposite experience. Referring to hand over notes that I'd taken years earlier when something unexpected came up to a system that still ran but no one actively was working on.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#103

Post by Hermitian909 »

wg0 wrote: post #69
wonderwonder wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much take a mercenary approach to my jobs. At my very first software job I remember seeing a let go employee walking sadly through the office with a box of his possessions under one arm and a potted plant in the other. Since then I have brought nothing personal into work. If I'm let go I just have to grab my keys and I'm out. Work is something I do to earn money. If companies can replace people for less or cut…

Here's a very controversial and bitter take. Aiming for maximum downvotes. It's only when you get fired, you start to see clearly and are able to come out of that flowery lala land of "we're a team", "we're a family" and all that misplaced rather abused analogies. It's just a commercial relationship rooted in generating profit (nothing wrong with that) for which have to collaborate with others. There's no team, there…

> that flowery lala land of "we're a team", "we're a family"

IMO "in a team" is actually achievable if you conceptualize it like a pro sports team where you can get laid off for under-performing, change in overall strategy, injuries etc. The players are still part of a team though.

My current company did layoffs and I don't think anyone is feeling "loyal" but I certainly feel like a member of a team because my coworkers and I work collaboratively towards shared goals and step in to support each other. We don't do this out of any loyalty to the company but because this behavior helps us work better together in a way that is more pleasant and is rewarded by the company.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#104

Post by JohnFen »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #60
atemerev wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it, 80s? There is no “company loyalty” since 2000s, and soon there will be no “jobs” in general. We are all contractors and mercenaries now.

Anyone staying more than a year is loyal in my book. And plenty stay more than a year.

Which actually illustrates the "no loyalty" point. A year is nothing. Staying that long doesn't demonstrate anything.

But nobody should be "loyal" to companies. Companies are certainly not "loyal" to them. To be clear, when I'm on the clock at a company, I'm all in -- they're paying me to be.

But off the clock, no. And I have no problem leaving a position when it's no longer beneficial to me. And employer-employee relationship is a business deal, nothing more.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#105

Post by JohnFen »

tptacek wrote: post #26
rybosworld wrote: post #10

I think it's awesome that some people enjoy their work and love their jobs. That said, if you aren't an owner of the company then I think it's unhealthy to be emotionally invested. In my last job, I had received a competing offer and informed my boss that I would rather not leave but that this other offer was too financially good for me to ignore. My boss responded by beating the other offer and I stayed there for ab…

This is one of those things that makes sense in the airless vacuum of a message board that has no connection to ordinary life; the mythical "touchless grass" as the tweeters say. In reality, people in all walks of life form deep emotional attachments to their jobs. Plant closures disrupt the identities of entire cities. People are emotionally attached to jobs as checkout clerks. Hit songs have been written about the…

> You can't just tell people not to have human connections to their work.

Human connections are great and important. But feeling an attachment to the company is neither of those things. Have connections with people, not with instruments of economic production.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#106

Post by outworlder »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #18
twawaaay wrote: post #13

I wonder if large companies recognise they are shitting in the pond they are floating in. As somebody with over quarter of century of experience managing and hiring people I notice how candidates change over time (trying to adjust for how I change myself). I notice people care less about the company they work for and, honestly, it is more and more difficult to find arguments against. This whole trend of optimising ev…

I feel like there’s something weird going on in most companies above a certain size. I’ve worked at small companies with a wonderful culture and people put in lots of work to get a beautiful product shipped. But then when the company grows something changes and pushes those original passionate people out. Everyone else sees the passionate people get treated bad and react appropriately. Suddenly the large company carv…

Middle management happens.

When the company is smaller you get managers that are genuinely interested in growing the company – because that's what they grow too. Forget the 'mission' and such nonsense, noone truly cares about that. And the people that are highly visible early on tend to keep on growing their influence, organically.

However, at a certain size, they don't grow all that much if at all. Sure, the company might still be growing on sales numbers, but it's still mostly static. Some new divisions may pop up but they are usually satellite operations that may or may not matter in the long run. The next best alternative is to fight to move up the reporting chain. That means company growth or wellbeing no longer matters; in fact, cannibalizing existing products or whole divisions or bringing them under you is how managers grow. They do not care who or what they have to step on to make that happen.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#107

Post by buggy6257 »

soundsgoodtome wrote: post #89
wg0 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a very controversial and bitter take. Aiming for maximum downvotes. It's only when you get fired, you start to see clearly and are able to come out of that flowery lala land of "we're a team", "we're a family" and all that misplaced rather abused analogies. It's just a commercial relationship rooted in generating profit (nothing wrong with that) for which have to collaborate with others. There's no team, there…

Can you even downvote on HN? E: For reference, I wouldn’t downvote this because it ain’t wrong.

Once you have enough karma (I forget the threshold several hundred but less than 1000) the downvote button is available to you yes.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#108

Post by JohnFen »

andonisus wrote: post #24
rybosworld wrote: post #10

I think it's awesome that some people enjoy their work and love their jobs. That said, if you aren't an owner of the company then I think it's unhealthy to be emotionally invested. In my last job, I had received a competing offer and informed my boss that I would rather not leave but that this other offer was too financially good for me to ignore. My boss responded by beating the other offer and I stayed there for ab…

I see it like this: it is my work. It is my name that goes on the CR, on the commit, on the documentation, etc. Why shouldn’t I take as much pride and genuinely care about it as much as I can? At the end of it all, it is my effort, and I will give he best effort I can. I know I’m speaking about effort, and you’re speaking about becoming emotionally invested, but the latter is a natural manifestation of of the former;…

You can be invested in your work, in your professionalism, and in the people you get to know. All of those things are very different from being emotionally invested in the company itself.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#109

Post by ctvo »

Just so we’re all on the same page:

Not being loyal to the company doesn’t mean not being kind and good to your coworkers, or being a poor leader.

It doesn’t mean you have license to be pessimistic, jaded, poisonous, and an asshole.

It does mean your identity isn’t you work for Google, and your worth isn’t your continued relationship with your employer.

It does mean make good financial decisions for yourself, your family, and avoid giving home team discounts.

Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio

#110

Post by buggy6257 »

librish wrote: post #72
Xeronate wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your sentiment is nice in theory, but in reality it's just a recipe for getting taken advantage of.

It's OK to be taken advantage of a little bit .

…why? Sorry I’m not being flippant here I mean it. Why would this be okay? What is the reason that I would want someone to be able to intentionally take advantage of me as a person in a way that benefits them but not me when I have no personal connection to them?

Moreover, why would I let a corporation or other business do that?

Im genuinely curious where your thinking is at with this and hope you’ll elaborate beyond this short reply you gave.

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