There's a reason it's called human "resources". You better believe that if MBAs could kill or renice employees the way you might do computer processes, they would.
Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio
91–100 of 147 posts
Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio
#92I wonder if large companies recognise they are shitting in the pond they are floating in. As somebody with over quarter of century of experience managing and hiring people I notice how candidates change over time (trying to adjust for how I change myself). I notice people care less about the company they work for and, honestly, it is more and more difficult to find arguments against. This whole trend of optimising ev…
No they don't. Look anywhere else besides tech and you'll see. How people were so naive for so long is amazing. High salaries, RSU, whatever plush perks, blah, blah are just love bombing without the romance.
Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I very much take a mercenary approach to my jobs. At my very first software job I remember seeing a let go employee walking sadly through the office with a box of his possessions under one arm and a potted plant in the other. Since then I have brought nothing personal into work. If I'm let go I just have to grab my keys and I'm out. Work is something I do to earn money. If companies can replace people for less or cut…
Here's a very controversial and bitter take. Aiming for maximum downvotes. It's only when you get fired, you start to see clearly and are able to come out of that flowery lala land of "we're a team", "we're a family" and all that misplaced rather abused analogies. It's just a commercial relationship rooted in generating profit (nothing wrong with that) for which have to collaborate with others. There's no team, there…
I've never been fired but pretty much realized this from job one. I do agree though that for the people who don't understand this and look at the company as a place where they work with friends towards a common goal getting fired is likely the best way for them to understand that they are all just cogs in a heartless machine.
I had a team member fired the other day (he probably deserved it) and no one even bothered to tell me. I figured he quit and reached out wishing him well. I felt pretty awkward when I found out he was let go. The problem was they aren't even back filling his role, I just have to pick up the slack. He does a job totally different than mine that I really have no experience doing. I'm just winging it and not really caring about it. If they don't replace the guy I'm not putting in extra hours to ensure what he was doing gets done. Give me half his salary and I'll care.
Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio
#94I think it's awesome that some people enjoy their work and love their jobs. That said, if you aren't an owner of the company then I think it's unhealthy to be emotionally invested. In my last job, I had received a competing offer and informed my boss that I would rather not leave but that this other offer was too financially good for me to ignore. My boss responded by beating the other offer and I stayed there for ab…
> unhealthy to be emotionally invested. I used to agree with this, but I've changed my tune recently. Working 8 hours a day on something you're not emotionally invested in for years is incredibly depressing and puts you at risk of burn out. My more nuanced opinion is that you need to find the right pieces of the company to be invested in. I can take pride in the quality of the code, in trying to help out my co-worker…
This and investment in self development through the work for the company. I don't earn just money but I gain experience. When the second one doesn't go up, it's time to go.
Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I would love to work in an environment where I felt valued as a person but I have yet to find that CAN that even exist? The mercenary approach seems to me the only one that doesn't fall prey to living in a fantasy about how things "Should" be -- there is only the way they are: it's a business relationship. Younger me thought otherwise. I was big into startup culture, enjoyed the comradery of working long hours, taki…
>CAN that even exist? Fully remote lifestyle business where everyone's workload is around 12-24 hours a week with $100k+ salaries. Everyone in the company makes around the same amount (CEO to junior). Full transparency for the accounting books. Excess profits get evenly distributed to everyone. No investors to answer to. A job that gives enough time and money to do what you want in life. This is really only for peopl…
Sign me up. Its essentially the co-op of software businesses.
Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio
#96I wonder if large companies recognise they are shitting in the pond they are floating in. As somebody with over quarter of century of experience managing and hiring people I notice how candidates change over time (trying to adjust for how I change myself). I notice people care less about the company they work for and, honestly, it is more and more difficult to find arguments against. This whole trend of optimising ev…
I don't understand how Twilio could need 8500 employees? Atlassian reports 8100 and I'd say they have a much larger and diverse body of work than Twilio. Am I being crass in thinking that this could have been avoided had they not grown headcount "like a rocket ship: straight up and to the right"?
They did not need them.
They already admitted in September they overhired just for the sake of growth and they lost focus through the process.
https://techcrunch.com/2022/09/14/twilio-lays-off-11-of-its-...
It is the same old story, really. First hires are careful and frugal decisions. But at some point when there is money laying around that needed to be spent people will hire almost anybody just for the sake of being able to report progress on the hiring they were supposed to do or to grow their kingdom or to jumpstart a new potential product that wasn't really thought through very well or a lot other reasons.
Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio
#97I wonder if large companies recognise they are shitting in the pond they are floating in. As somebody with over quarter of century of experience managing and hiring people I notice how candidates change over time (trying to adjust for how I change myself). I notice people care less about the company they work for and, honestly, it is more and more difficult to find arguments against. This whole trend of optimising ev…
> I notice people care less about the company they work for
I learned, several decades back, that it's always a mistake to actually, really care about the company you work for. Care about your work, absolutely. Care about your professionalism. Care about your coworkers.
But not about the company. No company cares in the slightest about you (and especially not companies who make a big show about how much they care). Caring about them is simply dysfunctional, opens you up to being taken advantage of, and sooner or later, will harm you.
Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio
#98I wonder if large companies recognise they are shitting in the pond they are floating in. As somebody with over quarter of century of experience managing and hiring people I notice how candidates change over time (trying to adjust for how I change myself). I notice people care less about the company they work for and, honestly, it is more and more difficult to find arguments against. This whole trend of optimising ev…
I very much take a mercenary approach to my jobs. At my very first software job I remember seeing a let go employee walking sadly through the office with a box of his possessions under one arm and a potted plant in the other. Since then I have brought nothing personal into work. If I'm let go I just have to grab my keys and I'm out. Work is something I do to earn money. If companies can replace people for less or cut…
> I would love to work in an environment where I felt valued as a person but I have yet to find that.
Start your own business.
Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio
#99Reading the responses to some of these posts it feels like the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction in the "the company is not your family" discussion. Yes, if you expect corporate America to always treat you fairly you're going to end up disappointed. But spending 9 years at a place and not even giving a little bit of yourself to the company seems even worse. It's OK to think that your boss cares about…
I think the broader point is, giving 40+ hours per week to a company is already giving enough of yourself to the company. I think it's great for people to put in extra effort and time, if you're inspired to do it. Of course, you should care about your boss and co-worker as people and become friends with them. But never forget they're co-workers, not family. At the end of the day, labor demands change and if it's in the company's best interest to let people go then that's what's going to happen.
Re: Thoughts on getting laid off after nine years at Twilio
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This whole trend of optimising everything to the max without caring for people is going to create an employee base that is completely disillusioned about their role or prospects or what's their best strategy for life. While I get where you're coming from, it's a pretty big leap to go from what's happening now to "optimizing everything to the max". Twilio tripled in size since the pandemic, and wasn't/isn't profitab…
What are you referring to? We've gone through multiple cold cycles already. 2012 was a year of large layoffs and tough hiring, so was 2016/2017 and now 2022 for seemingly arbitrary reasons. Some engineers may have gone through these cycles without issue, but everyone was acutely aware of the layoffs when they were occurring and if you graduated during those times it was especially hard to find a job until the job mar…
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