If this campaign gets traction, what are the odds Elon _doesn't_ run afoul of the NLRB?
"Was I not supposed to fire everyone I caught handing out a union card?"
Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York
151–160 of 194 posts
Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the absence of labor regulation, employment sprints in the direction of slavery.
Keyloggers are nothing like chattel slavery. Melodramatic comparisons make labor advocates sound unreasonable. It’s fine to push for less intrusive performance monitoring on its own merits.
Rather, the point is to illustrate how the default state of the employer-employee relationship is to be as unfavorable to the employee as the employer can get away with, where slavery is merely the extreme end of the scale that employers aspire to.
Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York
#153As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?
Unions can and do exist in right to work states. The point of a union is not job security. It's about giving workers collective power they may not otherwise have. Historically unions have been painted as extremely antagonistic towards companies in the United States, but there's no reason that has to be true. A well-run union recognizes that their survival is tied to the company's survival, and as long as both sides e…
> The point of a union is not job security. It's about giving workers collective power they may not otherwise have.
No, it's about giving workers currently employed by the company collective power. This means keeping potential employees out by setting a threshold for financial compensation or number of hours available to work. The victims here (unemployed and underemployed people) have no collective power and don't appear in data so they are ignored.
Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York
#154As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?
A decent union is mostly about job conditions, not job security - collective bargaining prevents a "race to the bottom" where abusive conditions creep in due to there always being some people who'll do the job anyway. A good example is the Screen Actors Guild which imposes all kinds of minimum conditions, for example, due to which all kinds of safety issues in filming are handled quite decently (even if stuff does st…
> conditions creep in due to there always being some people who'll do the job anyway
don't worry, minimum wage laws keep those pesky people unemployed
Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Keyloggers are nothing like chattel slavery. Melodramatic comparisons make labor advocates sound unreasonable. It’s fine to push for less intrusive performance monitoring on its own merits.
Rather, the point is to illustrate how the default state of the employer-employee relationship is to be as unfavorable to the employee as the employer can get away with, where slavery is merely the extreme end of the scale that employers aspire to.
if the "employer-employee relationship" was not a positive sum transaction then it wouldn't happen
Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The idea of a union is that it insulates you from being instantly punished for factors you might not be able to control a little better than the market is doing right now. Most people have good days and bad days. Any manager who's crazy enough to punish someone for having one bad day isn't a good manager. If that happens it's likely a manager specific issue > When was the last time you got a job purely on the basis…
> Most people have good days and bad days. Any manager who's crazy enough to punish someone for having one bad day isn't a good manager. If that happens it's likely a manager specific issue How about 2 bad months due to an illness? US companies are pretty much set up so that people in those situations often end up being let go. It's not a "manager specific issue", it's a broader cultural one. > This isn't a bad thing…
> which is why they (if not you) might want to consider unions if they want to protect themselves from the stark meritocracy that you posit.
Why would you prefer a system under which you have to know someone to get a good job instead of a system under which you just have to master a skill?
Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York
#157Not that it matters much as a matter of labor policy, but the factory in question is Gigafactory 2, which is a photovoltaic cell fab that employs (per Wikipedia) 1500 people. They make the roofing products, not cars or batteries.
Some reading about the factory - https://www.investigativepost.org/2023/01/11/teslas-solar-fa...
Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're really moving the goalposts. From "the heirs who own the majority of stock" to "spending $55,000+ a year on your kid's high school." Edit: Zuckerberg's parents were a psychiatrist and a dentist. Well paid jobs but still jobs. I'd hardly call it generational wealth .
If your parents can afford to spend 60k a year on your high school, then that is generational wealth . Do you think the child of a poor single mother trying to make ends meet is given the same opportunities?
It's not as easy, certainly, but I know of several founders who grew up poor.
Steve Jobs father never graduated high school and fixed cars for a living.
Larry Ellison grew up in an apartment in the South Side of Chicago.
Starbucks founder Howard Schultz grew up in a public housing project.
Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York
#159> Workers at the Buffalo plant told Bloomberg that Tesla tracks their computer keystrokes to monitor how they work, prompting some employees to refrain from taking bathroom breaks. It’s honestly kind of mind boggling that this is even legal.
why would it be illegal? employees are welcome to find jobs elsewhere
"Why would lack of air conditioning be illegal? Sweatshop workers are welcome to find jobs elsewhere."
Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have seen no evidence of build quality being higher in the unionized GM and Ford than the non-unionized Toyota, Hyundai, and Honda plants in the US. The opposite may even be true.
I was referring to panel gaps and other quality issues which are quite egregious with the Tesla brand.
Is there any evidence that Toyota (etc) have worse cosmetic panel gaps than Ford and GM? Overall, Toyota (etc) have excellent quality.