Why I'm a Pirate • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#81

Post by stevecooperorg » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 12:20 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #47

cturner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It might make you feel better about it, but it really > doesn't change the fact that you're stealing something > of value Copyright infringement is not stealing. Separately, the person who worked hard to produce whatever you're buying is reaping a fraction of a percentage point of whatever you're spending, and that's only if the distributor hasn't found a way to screw them out of that entirely (or else they've been…

> Copyright infringement is not stealing. I assume there will be counter-arguments/downvotes, so to elaborate on this point using my own arguments: If you steal something from me, I don't have it (as in "steal a car"), so you're putting me in a worse-off position. If you copy/pirate something that is mine (properly copy, with attribution, and not out of context), I am not worse-off (possibly even better-off, as I get…

There's an economic concept called 'club goods', which describe the way copyrighted materials are supposed to work -- you pay for access and get the same rights that everyone else who pays gets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_good -- shut down today in SOPA protest

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#82

Post by rmc » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 12:20 PM UTC

tjogin wrote: post #18

rmc wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might say "you could never get every movie/album/piece of software in one place like that! It would be an organizational nightmare!" Given no other option, however, they will be forced to innovate. Heheh, and yet The Pirate Bay (and lots of others), have a single site with lots of things. It might be a nightmare, but not only can it exist, but it does exist. I am always amazed that the pirate/P2P swarm essential…

The problem of music piracy is mostly solved, largely because of iPod/iTunes and Spotify and others. And it was, indeed, solved by making the legal services as good or better as the illegal ones. Sure there are some music piracy left, but only a fraction of the piracy during the Napster heydays. The problem that does persist (if it's a problem at all) is that the perceived value of recorded music has dropped, other f…

Yes, lots of piracy is due to a market failure. However for many countries (even highly developed, long time members of the EU, let alone the developing world), there is very few legal options.

Not to mention that Linux users still have a very poor legal selection even in big rich countries (like UK).

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#83

Post by bad_user » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 12:22 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #69

tomp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Copyright infringement is not stealing. I assume there will be counter-arguments/downvotes, so to elaborate on this point using my own arguments: If you steal something from me, I don't have it (as in "steal a car"), so you're putting me in a worse-off position. If you copy/pirate something that is mine (properly copy, with attribution, and not out of context), I am not worse-off (possibly even better-off, as I get…

"Copyright infringement is not stealing." Sure, let's have a very pedentic notion of stealing and keeping framing the debate around 'stealing'. OK... "taking something which isn't yours and/or you don't have permission to take". In most minds, that's the same as stealing, hence the standard use of the word 'stealing'. But substitute the phrase above for 'stealing' and, imo, it becomes harder to justify. Just because…

Here's a history of copyright law:

    - Copyright Act of 1790 - established U.S. copyright 
      with term of 14 years with 14-year renewal
    - Copyright Act of 1831 - extended the term to 
      28 years with 14-year renewal
    - Copyright Act of 1909 - extended term to 28 years 
      with 28-year renewal
    - Copyright Act of 1976 - extended term to either 
      75 years or life of author plus 50 years 
    - Copyright Renewal Act of 1992 
      removed the requirement for renewal
    - Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA) of 1994 
      restored U.S. copyright for certain foreign works
    - Copyright Term Extension Act of 1998 extended terms 
      to 95/120 years or life plus 70 years
    - Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 
      criminalized some cases of copyright infringement

So let's get this straight, from 14 years the copyright period was extended to 95/120 years or life plus 70 years. And there's reason to believe that as long as Disney (and the like) exists, the concept of public domain is obsolete.

So you can talk about right versus wrong, good versus evil and so on, but clearly something stinks about this picture, which is why I don't blame "pirates" for justifying their acts, as their acts are justified.

And, how fucked up is it that restaurants are afraid of singing "Happy Birthday to You"? Are those singing it thieves?

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#84

Post by nattyackermann » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 12:22 PM UTC

Instead of fighting to pass laws and restrictions, find ways to offer US the CONSUMERS BETTER QUALITY that we would be willing to pay for. Let go of the obsolete, and adapt and take advantage of change. CDs are obsolete.

Radiohead is an AMAZING band that has offered their album up for free on the internet and they are still hugely successful. Take a clue from them.

CHANGE and sharing IS A GOOD THING.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#85

Post by hendrik-xdest » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 12:24 PM UTC

sek wrote: post #67

siphr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

zalthor: You've highlighted a very important point here. One which a lot of people overlook and that is the unavailability of the content in most south-east-asian countries. Piracy, I believe, is the norm there and if it were not for piracy most of the countries over there would be severely lacking in terms of knowledge and awareness of a specific domain (for e.g: cultural awareness in terms of movies and music pirac…

No just in Asian countries. In Germany we have to hope something is successful enough to be shown on TV and then with a horrible German translation. The only way to watch this in original would be waiting 3 Years for a DVD version. I envy you Americans for Netflix, we have nothing like that here.

I do not know Netflix but have you heard of Videoload? Havn't used it either but my guess is that there are no current movies out soon after their cinematic release on that platform, as well. ITunes Germany had some TV shows one day after their broadcast in the US. I don't know if that is still happening.

There are some strict rules around in Germany that defined at what time a movie may be released on DVD after it has hit cinemas. I think it is 6 months. Renting the movie might in some occasions be possible a couple of weeks earlier. Though, that has never mattered to me. Waiting on the DVD release or for it's TV premiere are pretty much the same for me. Although, I guess there is also a minimum period for DVD sales before it is shown on TV.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#86

Post by ZenPsycho » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 12:24 PM UTC

gavinballard wrote: post #16

This is a series of pretty poor arguments. The author seems to be looking for reasons to justify their own piracy and conflates anger at the approach of the "copyright industry" with infringement upon peoples' rights. One of the final lines of the article, in particular, is jarring: "If I'm a pirate, it's not to have some cheap music. It is because the time has come for you to fuck off." It's fine to be angry about t…

Of course you're right. We should always, as proud citizens of the USA strictly adhere to the ethics our founding fathers set forth: 1. A citizen may not injure a corporation, or through inaction, cause a corporation to come to harm. 2. A citizen must obey orders given to them by a Corporation except where such orders would conflict with (1.) 3. A citizen must protect his/her own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with (1.) and (2.)

So given that, you are right, he doesn't refute (1.) (2.) or (3.) at all!

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#87

Post by cturner » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 12:24 PM UTC

stevecooperorg wrote: post #81

tomp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Copyright infringement is not stealing. I assume there will be counter-arguments/downvotes, so to elaborate on this point using my own arguments: If you steal something from me, I don't have it (as in "steal a car"), so you're putting me in a worse-off position. If you copy/pirate something that is mine (properly copy, with attribution, and not out of context), I am not worse-off (possibly even better-off, as I get…

There's an economic concept called 'club goods', which describe the way copyrighted materials are supposed to work -- you pay for access and get the same rights that everyone else who pays gets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_good -- shut down today in SOPA protest

No. Club goods are different.

With a club good there is a tangible thing such as a running machine. By my use of it, you are unable to use it. But we judge the tradeoff to be worth it because we don't each want to go out and buy a gym.

That is unlike copyright where the cost of making a copy is nothing, and may even increase the value of the copied data through network effects.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#88

Post by gavinballard » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 12:25 PM UTC

loup-vaillant wrote: post #48

gavinballard wrote: post #16

This is a series of pretty poor arguments. The author seems to be looking for reasons to justify their own piracy and conflates anger at the approach of the "copyright industry" with infringement upon peoples' rights. One of the final lines of the article, in particular, is jarring: "If I'm a pirate, it's not to have some cheap music. It is because the time has come for you to fuck off." It's fine to be angry about t…

> you're stealing something of value that someone worked hard to produce. What exactly is stolen? Certainly not the piece of music, film, or knowledge: unlike spaghetti, those are abundant, non-conflicting goods. Nor the exclusivity, for it is only destroyed. Nor secrecy or privacy, for the piece of knowledge or art is public already. This is not theft. This is infringing a state granted monopoly. It doesn't make it…

See my comment above re: pedantic arguments about the definition of "stealing".

grellas made an excellent post the other day about the nature of physical property rights vs intangible property rights [1]. The general gist is that declaring one "fundamental" and the other "not-fundametal" is sophistry; both are considered important to society and both are and will continue to be protected by law.

In my opinion, the existence of both physical and IP property rights is a social good - it's defining the boundaries of those rights that becomes the tricky part. I don't think we're hitting the right balance worldwide at the moment, but I also don't think we should be swinging violently towards SOPA or conversely anarchy.

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3463640

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#89

Post by phzbOx » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 12:25 PM UTC

He's good a point about the easiness of downloading/watching. Here's a real story: In Canada, it seems like all streaming music websites are illegal. (Spotify, pandora, ). But, I still wanted to be legal. So, at the end, I had to "hack" my way to download spotify and listen to it. Isn't that stupid? If they decide that spotify is illegal, at least give me a better solution.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#90

Post by Tyrannosaurs » Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 12:25 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #47

cturner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It might make you feel better about it, but it really > doesn't change the fact that you're stealing something > of value Copyright infringement is not stealing. Separately, the person who worked hard to produce whatever you're buying is reaping a fraction of a percentage point of whatever you're spending, and that's only if the distributor hasn't found a way to screw them out of that entirely (or else they've been…

> Copyright infringement is not stealing. I assume there will be counter-arguments/downvotes, so to elaborate on this point using my own arguments: If you steal something from me, I don't have it (as in "steal a car"), so you're putting me in a worse-off position. If you copy/pirate something that is mine (properly copy, with attribution, and not out of context), I am not worse-off (possibly even better-off, as I get…

OK, how would you feel if the person who owned your apartment before you came in with a key he still had while you were out and sat in your bedroom in the dark (not using power) playing with himself?

You're not using your flat, it's there anyway, you've not lost anything, nothing has been broken or damaged, he's gone before you're back so it's fine right?