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The US Air Force successfully tested AI-controlled jet fighter

arstechnica.com

21–30 of 97 posts

Re: The US Air Force successfully tested AI-controlled jet fighter

#21

The military always claims they will have a human 'in the loop' to make kill decisions. That promise will go out the window just as soon as other nations arm ai enabled drones with anti air missiles. There's no time for 'human in the loop' when the first to act survives. Thus down the slippery slope we go. In 20 years time we'll probably have aircraft that do figure eights over enemy territory for hours before automa…

> That promise will go out the window just as soon as other nations arm ai enabled drones with anti air missiles.

Ethics don't go out the window because of autonomy. It's dark, but it's not somehow easy to shrug off as "ok no human then no ethics". We already have semi-autonomous weapons such as CIWS (Goalkeeper/Phalanx) which are autonomous because it's very tedious for a human to sit idle and wait for threats and then it's really hard to hit them. Perfect job for a robot. But the ethical job of the human in that case is ensuring that the weapon isn't armed if there is too high risk of collateral damage (These sit on ships, typically, so a human decides whether it's safe to arm the weapon given the situation around the vessel).

The dumbest autonomous weapons are mines, they are hundreds of years old. The ethical decision is made when laying down the mine, not when the explosion is triggered. So yes it's a slippery slope, but the "human in the loop" isn't only ethical when it's the kill decision. There is a "human in the loop" when laying a mine too. The ethics involved consists of weighing the risk of killing the wrong target, properly documenting where they are planted and so on. There is no human "in the loop" at the time the mine kills someone. But that doesn't somehow throw ethics out the window. The person deploying the mine - or the slaughterbot - is the person in the loop.

> In 20 years time we'll probably have aircraft that do figure eights over enemy territory for hours before automatically engaging 'military aged males'.

I think that is unlikely, but possibly "armed" personnel. We already have craft that do figure eights for hours before automatically engaging specific signatures of vehicles (if we'd want to). And as I said, even artillery shells do this. But yes, finding a concentration of troops and deciding whether they are soldiers/civilian isn't even 20 years away.

Re: The US Air Force successfully tested AI-controlled jet fighter

#22
post #12

What will be interesting is when we design a fighter that doesn't have to accommodate a person. Its size can likely shrink and its performance envelope can be completely re-thought. E.g. Similar to the move from pets to cattle in computing. A jet fighter can very much be considered disposable and swap safety features for additional payloads. The squadron could first coordinate in a pattern far more sophisticated than…

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Re: The US Air Force successfully tested AI-controlled jet fighter

#24
post #12

What will be interesting is when we design a fighter that doesn't have to accommodate a person. Its size can likely shrink and its performance envelope can be completely re-thought. E.g. Similar to the move from pets to cattle in computing. A jet fighter can very much be considered disposable and swap safety features for additional payloads. The squadron could first coordinate in a pattern far more sophisticated than…

That's what this decade old fighter jet is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Taranis One of the reasons for it being pilotless is it can fly moves/turns that create G forces no human pilots could stand with their jump suit. But you know, Taranis has all gone very quiet, slipping out of the public's memory.

This either slipped my mind or I missed it back then. I have this nagging suspicion that I did see this news back then. The "memory hole" efforts were successful, though. Thanks for the notice/reminder!

Re: The US Air Force successfully tested AI-controlled jet fighter

#26
post #12

What will be interesting is when we design a fighter that doesn't have to accommodate a person. Its size can likely shrink and its performance envelope can be completely re-thought. E.g. Similar to the move from pets to cattle in computing. A jet fighter can very much be considered disposable and swap safety features for additional payloads. The squadron could first coordinate in a pattern far more sophisticated than…

Another option with the No pilot model is that there isn’t a need to have a large capability revealing fleet flying around all the time. Everything is done small s ale or in software until go time arrives.

This theory is in the latter part of Tyler Rogoway’s “The Alarming Case of the USAF’s Mysteriously Missing Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles”

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3889/the-alarming-case...

Re: The US Air Force successfully tested AI-controlled jet fighter

#27

The military always claims they will have a human 'in the loop' to make kill decisions. That promise will go out the window just as soon as other nations arm ai enabled drones with anti air missiles. There's no time for 'human in the loop' when the first to act survives. Thus down the slippery slope we go. In 20 years time we'll probably have aircraft that do figure eights over enemy territory for hours before automa…

> That promise will go out the window just as soon as other nations arm ai enabled drones with anti air missiles. Ethics don't go out the window because of autonomy. It's dark, but it's not somehow easy to shrug off as "ok no human then no ethics". We already have semi-autonomous weapons such as CIWS (Goalkeeper/Phalanx) which are autonomous because it's very tedious for a human to sit idle and wait for threats and t…

I'm pretty sure they were claiming that ethics go out the window when threatened, and it will probably lead to using AI in a problematic way because it's easy to see it as a quick win (via improved autonomy), and once it's out there it tends to stay in use. Not that autonomy leads to ethics taking a break.

The latter may also be true, but that wasn't what they were claiming.

Re: The US Air Force successfully tested AI-controlled jet fighter

#28
post #2

FYI Hollywood made a movie about this very subject, Stealth from 2005. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382992/ The plane goes rogue but humans ingenuity saves the day.

I know it's a stretch, but that was also the premise of Star Trek TOS's 1968 (S02E24) episode "The Ultimate Computer" - M-5 goes rogue and our swashbuckling crew of the Enterprise saves the day. Also.... I saw Stealth in theaters and have not thought about it again until just now. Edit: Oh, and back in 2005 I was big into the band Incubus , and I really dug their song " Make a Move " on that soundtrack.

Man, Incubus was on some great soundtracks back then. Halo 2...

Re: The US Air Force successfully tested AI-controlled jet fighter

#29
post #18
post #12

What will be interesting is when we design a fighter that doesn't have to accommodate a person. Its size can likely shrink and its performance envelope can be completely re-thought. E.g. Similar to the move from pets to cattle in computing. A jet fighter can very much be considered disposable and swap safety features for additional payloads. The squadron could first coordinate in a pattern far more sophisticated than…

Yet another reason that the trillions of dollars spent on the F-35 have been wasted.

Being hidden for longer than your opponent is always going to be useful, regardless of whether a human or an AI is actually flying.
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