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Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

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Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#81

Post by TallGuyShort »

cachecrab wrote: post #56
TallGuyShort wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I'm no Trump fan, but Ohio is also notoriously a swing state. Not sure it's remotely fair or relevant to talk about a fluctuating margin of voters as characterizing a state.

Unfortunately it hasn't been much of a swing state since the orange man came on the scene. Not to say that Ohio deserved this though.

It would take a lot more calls to random.randint(0, 1) than that for me to think something was wrong. Especially since we're actually talking about values that rarely go outside 0.4 and 0.6.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#82

Post by giantg2 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #71
colpabar wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people are so upset isn't necessarily because of the environmental impact, it's because the people who work on these trains have been warning things like this could happen for years, and when they tried to strike over it, the federal government stepped in and crushed them into submission. There was a car on that train that was on fire for at least 20 miles before the derailment. If I can get pulled over fo…

I'm not denying the accident was bad, I'm tempering an unwarranted level of hysteria for what is another small scale industrial accident. People are drumming up hysteria for political capital, but its not fair to people who live in Ohio or Pennsylvania and now think they can't use their water, they're doomed to cancer at 45, and their kids will be mutants. It's being blown way of of proportion to the reality of it. I…

Because people don't trust the government and the companies on stuff like this. "BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!", isn't exactly what people want to hear years after many of these sorts of accidents. Which has happened in the past. I mean, it took 2 weeks just to disclose additional chemicals in this incident.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#83

Post by alldayeveryday »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

Before everyone loses there mind, because this story has oddly been on blast 2 weeks after the incident: VC is a gas a room temperature. None of the VC cars were ruptured in the crash. They were vented and ignited by workers to avoid explosion. Burning VC produces carbon oxides, HCl, phosgene, and formaldehyde. HCl, Phosgene become hydrochloric acid in the atmosphere. The total amount of hydrochloric acid this could…

The EPA famously declared the air safe following 9/11. Their credibility is, at least for me personally, negligible. The flint water crisis and the Gold King Mine are other examples.

People are rightfully worried and angered. Your dismissal of them as "losing their mind" or "hysterical" is at best tone deaf, and at worst an intentional tactic to downplay the event. Appeals to governmental authority falls flat when the trust of the people no longer exists for their governmental institutions.

From the article: U.S. EPA continues to assist Norfolk Southern and Columbiana Emergency Management Agency with voluntary residential air screening. ... To increase the rate of screening, Norfolk Southern—with U.S. EPA assistance—is bringing more teams and equipment to East Palestine.

You expect Norfolk Southern to perform honest screening which would result in millions upon millions in damages to be paid out? Why isnt the EPA in charge of this rather than following the lead of Norfolk?

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#84

Post by Sakos »

Pegasus930 wrote: post #20
Kyragem wrote: post #12

[flagged]

[flagged]

No.

The problem is how they treat the elections like a popularity contest without regard to how it affects them or their quality of life. It sucks how this will affect them. It really does. However, these are the consequences for voting in people who don't give a shit about you in the slightest.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#85

Post by gruez »

perihelions wrote: post #7

- "On Sunday, the EPA released a list, written by Norfolk Southern, of the toxic chemicals that were in the derailed cars. In addition to vinyl chloride and butyl acrylate, it mentions ethylhexyl acrylate, which can cause headaches, nausea, and respiratory problems in people exposed to it; as well as isobutylene, which can make people dizzy and drowsy." This is anodyne phrasing that omits the lede, which is that this…

>Another notable diff is that ABC describes ethylhexyl acrylate as a "carcinogen", linking to a CDC page as a cite

The linked CDC source doesn't really definitively say it's a carcinogen. The exact quote is "potential occupational carcinogen as defined by the OSHA carcinogen policy [29 CFR 1990]". Also, it's worth noting that the page is for "Ethyl acrylate", not "ethylhexyl acrylate". A google search for "ethylhexyl acrylate" turns up results for 2-ETHYLHEXYL ACRYLATE, which has a different CAS number, so it's unknown whether ABC is even referring to the correct chemical.

[1] https://www.chempoint.com/products/download?grade=2716&docty...

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#86

Post by MrOwnPut »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #30
MrOwnPut wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, do you have details on that, or is that a guess?

Generally flammable things burn in a fire.

So a guess then, that's disappointing. Generally things don't burn 100% perfectly.

Unless you were onsite testing what was in the runoff and have the results, you're speculating.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#87

Post by colpabar »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #71
colpabar wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people are so upset isn't necessarily because of the environmental impact, it's because the people who work on these trains have been warning things like this could happen for years, and when they tried to strike over it, the federal government stepped in and crushed them into submission. There was a car on that train that was on fire for at least 20 miles before the derailment. If I can get pulled over fo…

I'm not denying the accident was bad, I'm tempering an unwarranted level of hysteria for what is another small scale industrial accident. People are drumming up hysteria for political capital, but its not fair to people who live in Ohio or Pennsylvania and now think they can't use their water, they're doomed to cancer at 45, and their kids will be mutants. It's being blown way of of proportion to the reality of it. I…

> People are drumming up hysteria for political capital, but its not fair to people who live in Ohio or Pennsylvania and now think they can't use their water, they're doomed to cancer at 45, and their kids will be mutants.

Can you show me a single comment on this website and not on reddit that is saying those things? Also, did you know that the EPA also said that all the dust in the air on 9/11 was perfectly safe? I am not implying malice here, but sometimes the authorities are just wrong, so it seems naive to just believe them.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/10/epa-head-wro...

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#88

Post by thepasswordis »

unethical_ban wrote: post #47
Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

Before everyone loses there mind, because this story has oddly been on blast 2 weeks after the incident: VC is a gas a room temperature. None of the VC cars were ruptured in the crash. They were vented and ignited by workers to avoid explosion. Burning VC produces carbon oxides, HCl, phosgene, and formaldehyde. HCl, Phosgene become hydrochloric acid in the atmosphere. The total amount of hydrochloric acid this could…

It should not be seen as business as usual when these kinds of things happen. It was at least tolerable due to my ignorance when you talked about these chemicals boiling off, but then to say "no biggie that petroleum spilled everywhere, I'm sure it burned off too." The whistle has been blown on the rails and the rail companies for some time, and now a catastrophe has occurred. We should be severely punishing the rail…

[flagged]

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#89

Post by steviedotboston »

shadowgovt wrote: post #80
colpabar wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people are so upset isn't necessarily because of the environmental impact, it's because the people who work on these trains have been warning things like this could happen for years, and when they tried to strike over it, the federal government stepped in and crushed them into submission. There was a car on that train that was on fire for at least 20 miles before the derailment. If I can get pulled over fo…

The reason people are so upset is because they watched a smoke plume reach all the way to the cloud layer. That's it. That's the whole story. The average citizen's grasp of the medical risks of chemicals is basically negligible. But a smoke plume that reaches all the way to the cloud layer makes everyone ask questions about things they didn't care about 3 weeks ago.

[flagged]

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#90

Post by [deleted] »

downvotetruth wrote: post #40
NotYourLawyer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bhopal was methyl isocyanate.

The most concerning chemical when Bhopal occurred was methyl isocyanate. But , although it was the most concerning, many other chemicals are at Bhopal that would be a significant problem in themselves, which are not possibilities for the current topic.

[deleted]
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