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Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

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Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#71

Post by Workaccount2 »

colpabar wrote: post #29
Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

Before everyone loses there mind, because this story has oddly been on blast 2 weeks after the incident: VC is a gas a room temperature. None of the VC cars were ruptured in the crash. They were vented and ignited by workers to avoid explosion. Burning VC produces carbon oxides, HCl, phosgene, and formaldehyde. HCl, Phosgene become hydrochloric acid in the atmosphere. The total amount of hydrochloric acid this could…

The reason people are so upset isn't necessarily because of the environmental impact, it's because the people who work on these trains have been warning things like this could happen for years, and when they tried to strike over it, the federal government stepped in and crushed them into submission. There was a car on that train that was on fire for at least 20 miles before the derailment. If I can get pulled over fo…

I'm not denying the accident was bad, I'm tempering an unwarranted level of hysteria for what is another small scale industrial accident.

People are drumming up hysteria for political capital, but its not fair to people who live in Ohio or Pennsylvania and now think they can't use their water, they're doomed to cancer at 45, and their kids will be mutants.

It's being blown way of of proportion to the reality of it. It also why expert testimony is so thin. You'd think by now all the experts would be pouring out to condemn the government. Meanwhile the best NPR could get was one sentence about potential indoor air quality issues going forward (which the EPA report addresses with "no concerning levels detected".

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#72

Post by kevviiinn »

kibwen wrote: post #52
agency wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the makeup of the federal government changes every two years, and yet nothing ever meaningfully changes, what does that say about the importance of voting?

If oligarchs spend tens of billions of dollars buying media companies in order to influence how people vote, what does that say about the importance of voting?

These are both the same statement, and I agree

Also note the influence of oligarchs on the politicians themselves

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#73

Post by ajross »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

Before everyone loses there mind, because this story has oddly been on blast 2 weeks after the incident: VC is a gas a room temperature. None of the VC cars were ruptured in the crash. They were vented and ignited by workers to avoid explosion. Burning VC produces carbon oxides, HCl, phosgene, and formaldehyde. HCl, Phosgene become hydrochloric acid in the atmosphere. The total amount of hydrochloric acid this could…

This take needs more coverage. In fact the current freakout is almost entirely due to the deliberate burn and the big plume it caused, with almost no one taking the time to explain that the combustion products are simply much safer than the products that were leaking.

But everyone wants to cover how it smells in East Palestine and not what the options were.

(And to everyone replying with "But it's ACTUALLY about the train safety issue": no it isn't. This train was sitting in a pile for more than a week and no one cared. People only cared once they could see the plume.)

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#74

Post by cmmeur01 »

dfxm12 wrote: post #31
colpabar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a country where everything important is owned and controlled by billionaires or hedge funds who also control the government via bribery. Events like this make me think that it's much, much crazier to trust the government to keep us safe.

The make up of the federal government changes greatly every two years. Our states probably have a similar turnover. This is why it's important to vote, not only in general elections, but also primary elections. Seats shouldn't be safe for incumbents who let this happen or anyone who takes huge donations from the billionaires or hedge funds you're talking about. Edit: I mean: the makeup of our government may change gr…

The class of people in the government doesn’t change.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#75

Post by pdabbadabba »

colpabar wrote: post #29
Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

Before everyone loses there mind, because this story has oddly been on blast 2 weeks after the incident: VC is a gas a room temperature. None of the VC cars were ruptured in the crash. They were vented and ignited by workers to avoid explosion. Burning VC produces carbon oxides, HCl, phosgene, and formaldehyde. HCl, Phosgene become hydrochloric acid in the atmosphere. The total amount of hydrochloric acid this could…

The reason people are so upset isn't necessarily because of the environmental impact, it's because the people who work on these trains have been warning things like this could happen for years, and when they tried to strike over it, the federal government stepped in and crushed them into submission. There was a car on that train that was on fire for at least 20 miles before the derailment. If I can get pulled over fo…

> The reason people are so upset isn't necessarily because of the environmental impact, it's because the people who work on these trains have been warning things like this could happen for years, and when they tried to strike over it, the federal government stepped in and crushed them into submission.

I've seen a few people say this. I'm sympathetic to the rail workers but, what's the evidence that this derailment had anything to do with the attempted rail workers strike? AFAIK, the primary issue there was sick leave--and, generally, a more humane work schedule. While I'm very much in favor of these things, I don't see what it has to do with this accident, other than that it presents a superficial opportunity to score some points.

Perhaps some mistake was made that would have been more likely if the workers were better rested? But if that's the extent of the connection, without any evidence of a real causal relationship, the argument seems irresponsibly speculative.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#76

Post by unethical_ban »

xwdv wrote: post #64
unethical_ban wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should not be seen as business as usual when these kinds of things happen. It was at least tolerable due to my ignorance when you talked about these chemicals boiling off, but then to say "no biggie that petroleum spilled everywhere, I'm sure it burned off too." The whistle has been blown on the rails and the rail companies for some time, and now a catastrophe has occurred. We should be severely punishing the rail…

Nationalizing is an overreach. This is why events like this have to be downplayed because if you don’t the vultures will swoop in with their own agendas and try to stir up emotions to garner support for unpopular causes.

[flagged]

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#77

Post by Sakos »

xwdv wrote: post #64
unethical_ban wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should not be seen as business as usual when these kinds of things happen. It was at least tolerable due to my ignorance when you talked about these chemicals boiling off, but then to say "no biggie that petroleum spilled everywhere, I'm sure it burned off too." The whistle has been blown on the rails and the rail companies for some time, and now a catastrophe has occurred. We should be severely punishing the rail…

Nationalizing is an overreach. This is why events like this have to be downplayed because if you don’t the vultures will swoop in with their own agendas and try to stir up emotions to garner support for unpopular causes.

[flagged]

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#79

Post by r85804306610 »

themitigating wrote: post #70
r85804306610 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_railroad_la... > "The rise of precision scheduled railroading has resulted in resource and staffing cuts; to compensate railroad companies have enacted strict attendance policies for employees. These policies eliminate any free time which workers have, requiring them to be effectively on-call for weeks at a time. Workers have complained of increased levels of stress an…

How do you know Biden forcing them back to work has anything to do with the crash?

i'm responding to op's callous and partisan take.

also the comment originally read "What does it have to do with the crash", which was immediately edited to "How do you know Biden forcing them back to work has anything to do with the crash?"

i will respond to the last one i saw: i don't. i'm pointing out that the wikipedia article about the 2022 union strike makes an argument that the strike was explicitly about safety. here's a vice article that goes into awful and terrifying details https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkp9m8/what-choice-do-i-have...>. biden's forced solution did not address the original safety concerns beyond "1 day of sick leave".

(edit: 2 minutes after posting this i got downvoted. the level of political discourse…)

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#80

Post by shadowgovt »

colpabar wrote: post #29
Workaccount2 wrote: post #15

Before everyone loses there mind, because this story has oddly been on blast 2 weeks after the incident: VC is a gas a room temperature. None of the VC cars were ruptured in the crash. They were vented and ignited by workers to avoid explosion. Burning VC produces carbon oxides, HCl, phosgene, and formaldehyde. HCl, Phosgene become hydrochloric acid in the atmosphere. The total amount of hydrochloric acid this could…

The reason people are so upset isn't necessarily because of the environmental impact, it's because the people who work on these trains have been warning things like this could happen for years, and when they tried to strike over it, the federal government stepped in and crushed them into submission. There was a car on that train that was on fire for at least 20 miles before the derailment. If I can get pulled over fo…

The reason people are so upset is because they watched a smoke plume reach all the way to the cloud layer. That's it. That's the whole story.

The average citizen's grasp of the medical risks of chemicals is basically negligible. But a smoke plume that reaches all the way to the cloud layer makes everyone ask questions about things they didn't care about 3 weeks ago.

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