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Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

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Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#31

Post by rtpg »

elif wrote: post #19
iso1631 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your individual performance may be fine when your company is small enough that your boss works for the CTO directly. When you are in a company with thousands of employees it makes no difference.

Job performance making no difference is my chief complaint. It leads to poor average performance which is a toxic work environment imo.

You think all these tech layoffs are sorting by performance and slicing that way? Ignoring the fact that performance measurements are barely possible at a granular level to allow such an ordering

One could argue about job perf making no difference in union shops (as if people don’t have some pride in their work since they’re spending a third of their life there and the vast majority of people are not trying to work in bad faith) but I think the implicit idea that non-union places have more than the most fat fingered and office politics dependent perf rivals is something to think about. We all know the coasting founder and the absentee manager

I think that during layoffs in a union shop at least management has to think a lot harder about cuts, and how to do them.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#32

Post by moolcool »

alfor wrote: post #23

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power. They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies. I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a…

> they are doing better than all the other car companies

By which metric? Their market cap is astronomical, but they, to be frank, don't actually make a lot of cars. Not to mention that virtually every product release is delayed ad nauseum, FSD from Tesla is both a pipe dream and a liability nightmare, and other manufacturers, both foreign and domestic, are rapidly catching up with appealing EVs.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#33

Post by mc32 »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

The relationship between unions and company are as tenuous and they fulfil a dual role of parasite and symbiosis where from time to time they are symbiotic to the worker while being parasitic to the company and worker at different times. In ideal conditions they would not be necessary; however, companies at times become too powerful and forget or diminish the value of their workers giving unions an in.

In the end, in the US at least Unions induce inefficiencies and add drag to a company. Yes, on the one hand companies don't voluntarily want to provide more benefits than the bare minimum but on the other hand they want to avoid the straightjacket that Unions tend to bring.

I'm not saying we don't need unions but I am saying they are a very uneasy relationship for all parties but the union bosses.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#34

Post by [deleted] »

alfor wrote: post #23

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power. They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies. I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#35

Post by quadrifoliate »

alfor wrote: post #23

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power. They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies. I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a…

> I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a few week usually find out that a lot of people are constantly stealing valuable materials from the company. It’s always people in the union with some friends that work on the floor.

It always strikes me how unions in the US are subject to these kinds of casual stereotyping attacks that would be totally outside the pale anywhere else.

Well, that can go both ways. Maybe your friend is an union-busting crook hired by those companies to push out union leaders via fake investigations! It could be that he got caught trying to have a chilling effect on unions via electronic surveillance (a practice that the NLRB is cracking down on [1]), and made up stories about stealing in an effort to justify his snooping.

(I don't actually mean that last paragraph, it just demonstrates how you can make up these sorts of stories out of thin air in order to appeal to people's existing prejudices. If you want to have a reasonable conversation, a good starting point would be some statistics about union v/s non-union employee workplace theft.)

[1] https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/nlrb-general-c...

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#36

Post by FireBeyond »

alfor wrote: post #23

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power. They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies. I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a…

That's a pretty big conclusion you're drawing there, and it's not something that's been supported by much evidence.

To be clear, the contention is "Most heavy industries go bankrupt because union members are constantly stealing supplies from the company."

Consider me skeptical. And I'm not a union member, let alone UAW.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#37

Post by beanjuiceII »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

I've been working along side(not in) an IT union for 15 years, what an interesting ride.. If you ever want to see how unproductive and lazy people can be this is the place!

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#38

Post by jackmott42 »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

The viability of your approach varies a lot depending on the type of job. For creative or technical jobs, sure. For people just on an assembly line doing boring repetitive work, you don't have those levers. Not everyone is a warrior poet who is going to network, and if we all could do that, then it wouldn't work anymore.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#39

Post by mc32 »

b34r wrote: post #30

They’re labelers, which are being quickly replaced by automation. This is a bid to secure their jobs long-term.

While I get their unease.... moves like this in a Globalized economy (supported by most Unions) might just prompt Tesla (or any other) to find an overseas shop to do this work for them. It's really a lose-lose for them, in my view. They may buy themselves some temporary "relief" but it'll accelerate business propensity to find more economical alternatives.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#40

Post by dhfbshfbu4u3 »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

Aren’t you the same person who was worried your “voluntary” retirement might be held against you when/if you look for a job?
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