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“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

seymourhersh.substack.com

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Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#991

Post by jessaustin »

partiallypro wrote: post #174
jessaustin wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Literally no one outside Europe and North America (or maybe Australia?) ever believed it was anyone besides USA and its vassals. Only people who are constantly dosed with USA war media bullshit consider this an "extraordinary claim". Not all of us are that foolish, however. This is completely irrelevant. Some people in Iran and Russia think the US is run by Satan. That doesn't make it so. Being anti-US is very in v…

I'm not going to include "evidence" about "Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Iran, Vietnam, Korea, Guatemala, Chile, Venezuela, Brazil, Nicaragua, Cuba, etc" in a four-sentence comment. It's no one's fault but your own that you are ignorant of history.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#992

Post by indymike »

hajile wrote: post #630
indymike wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is that weird? Assuming this is true, there would be rather many people with such knowledge. One of them may feel the need to talk. The level of detail about the operation is basically, some divers from the US Navy attached bombs to the pipeline during a military drill that were detonated with magical sonobouy signals according to some professor who said that might work. Another red flag: The vast majority of t…

A US amphibious warship USS Arlington[0] was sailing near the nordstream location. It left a Swedish island in the middle of the Baltic Sea 6 September 2022. Meanwhile, the US controversially transferred SEALS to Germany earlier in October 2022[1]. USNS William McLean left a German port 5 September 2022[3] (there are also port call records) and headed to meet the USS Arlington on 10 Sept 2022[2] to transfer cargo. US…

One does not use a giant assault ship for anything covert. This is movie plot stuff.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#993

Post by daxfohl »

weatherlight wrote: post #616
weatherlight wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the rub, SOCOM via JSOC is the only command that POTUS has any sway over (Thanks Obama.). The more you read the less plausible any of this is. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Joint_Special_Ope... . > Operations so secret you can't tell 8 Congressional leaders (as required by law) but you can tell Norway, Denmark, and Sweden about do not sound like a thing. Exactly!

I'd like to preface everything that Ive written thus far with the following. Yes, I'm former military. The United States does shady things and has a long history of doing so. The United States is a capitalist imperialist hell-scape for a lot of people. Counties/states do not have friends, they have interests. That being said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What was written in that piece does not…

As not ex military, the article sounds plausible. Likely, even.

My main objection is, who would be the source? It sounds like there are maybe 20 people in the world who would have this level of information. Each of those individuals would presumably have been selected largely on the basis of commitment to national security. That's why people sign up for these roles in the first place. None of these individuals have anything in particular to gain by leaking this information. All of them have _a lot_ to lose by the same.

I can't imagine any of these individuals as the source, which throws the rest of the story out the window. Even if it ends up being true in the end.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#994

Post by hajile »

indymike wrote: post #992
hajile wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A US amphibious warship USS Arlington[0] was sailing near the nordstream location. It left a Swedish island in the middle of the Baltic Sea 6 September 2022. Meanwhile, the US controversially transferred SEALS to Germany earlier in October 2022[1]. USNS William McLean left a German port 5 September 2022[3] (there are also port call records) and headed to meet the USS Arlington on 10 Sept 2022[2] to transfer cargo. US…

One does not use a giant assault ship for anything covert. This is movie plot stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEAL_Delivery_Vehicle

It has a range of roughly 20 miles necessitating carrying it near the location. That "giant assault ship" is exactly what you use to carry one of these. It also explains how you haul a few hundred pounds of explosives down a hundred meters for planting.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#995

Post by imwillofficial »

fromseashore wrote: post #878
imwillofficial wrote: post #625

I’m calling BS. I’m in a position to know and too many operational details are wrong.

Well, it is surely not wrong about the main detail: who gave the order to blow the pipeline.Unless you are living in a fantasy world, as most commenters here. But then, americans know so little about the world outside of their empire, that it is not very surprising.

Oh I’m totally onboard with the main point. However I’m calling a spade a spade. Every. Single. Detail. Is wrong.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#996

Post by oferdesade »

avgcorrection wrote: post #990
mlindner wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seymour Hersh is also 85 years old, long into his retirement with likely partially declining faculties. When you get older your "bullshit filter" starts to go away as well. Also he has a long career of attacking the US government so anything that "rhymes" with that is going to fit his own confirmation bias.

Your logical fallacy: Dismissal by referring to general facts that don’t necessarily pertain to a particular individual. You don’t know anything about his age-related cognitive decline, i.e. if there even is any. Some people get it relatively young, some relatively (and absolutely) older.

on the other hand, the older i get, the less patience i have... with checking out facts, with stupidity, with LOTS of things (it becomes a waste of what is becoming a more and more precious resource - my time). In hersh's case, he has been immersed in the muck for so long, it's become his frame of reference. and if something reverberates he trusts his "instincts". maybe rightfully so, maybe wrongully so - nobody but an insider with the facts really knows. and we as outsiders have to decide on a purely subjective basis if to believe him or not.

(sorry for being so long winded - it comes with the age)

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#997

Post by oferdesade »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #385
LarryMullins wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seymour Hersh has a very credible background and reputation. Assuming he is still lucid in his age, hasn't become a senile puppet of a ghost writer, then it would be foolish to write off his claims just because he isn't telling you who his source is.

> it would be foolish or would it be prudent to wait for evidence, to err on the side of caution ?

yes. but what does that entail in the case of the blowing up of GS2?

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#998

Post by miguelazo »

Sed47_ wrote: post #960
nivenkos wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a random substack blog, it's one of the most famous journalists (a real one, no less!) in the world.

A one with a long history of talking bullshit with nothing to back it (other than "anonymous sources").

Give us an example of when he was definitely wrong about something of substance. Not a minor detail, something that actually matters.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#999

Post by natosucks1999 »

mannerheim wrote: post #804
kubectl_h wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a mistaken title attribution, but even with a correction do you think it changes much? Stoltenberg is the civilian leader of NATO and having his support is crucial. Hersh may have been mistaken in the title, but not the person nor their importance.

I mean, he also claims Stoltenberg collaborated with American intelligence during Vietnam at the tender age of 16 given his birth date and the end of the war. The whole paragraph is just completely wrong.

The US controlled a lot of Social Democratic groups during the Cold War. Remember the European Left was overwhelmingly either Communist or Third Campist Socialists (non-Communist Marxists) in the first decade or two after WWII. Ever since then, the CIA boosted both Atlanticist Soc Dems and New Leftists, the latter perhaps being anti-American on the surface but undermining trade unions and socialist structures.

And now nearly every dumbass Western "progressive" thinks NATO is some holy defensive force and imperialism is somehow only something far lesser powers do.

Moreover, Stoltenberg´s DAD was a pro-NATO Defence and Foreign Minister.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#1000

Post by graderjs »

mmastrac wrote: post #97

It's a great story, but it's all unsourced and could be a decent Tom Clancy story at best. You could probably write a similar one with Russia or German agents as the key players and be just as convincing. The only anchor in reality appears to be Biden suggesting that they knew how to take it out which seems like a pretty weak place to build a large story. What I find particularly odd is that this entire thing appears…

Top comment of course is reassuring nothing-to-see-here platitude, definitively framing this thoroughly-sourced investigation by a Pulitzer winner (whatever that means) as a harmless entertaining fabrication (mad props to the mmastrac, it's quite a skill to deftly dismiss and trivialize months of work with two sentences)...aahhhh, so reassured....because we want to be "soothed and comforted, not challenged and confronted" and anything against the mainstream narrative and Chinese-spy-balloon-distraction is clearly "not anchored in reality". SMH...expect more from you HN.
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