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Let Teenagers Sleep

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#321

Post by nvarsj »

rajin444 wrote: post #127
fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #17

As a teenager I was diagnosed with "ADD". Very intelligent, but unable to focus or complete assignments. My life habits were carb heavy unhealthy food (from the cafeteria), soda, lack of sleep due to long school commute, not much exercise As an adult, I eat no carbs, all meat and vegetables, I work from home and sleep in as far as I need every night. My thinking is laser sharp. They tried to medicate me with all sort…

I used to be really big on trust the experts, seek authorities for advice, etc etc. Especially for areas involving mental / general health. Specifics like fixing a broken arm I’m still on the experts side :) Decades later I’ve had many (eerily similar) experiences to what you detailed above. I’ve gotten the best results evaluating issues on my own / with the help of a few trusted sources. Expert advice is about as re…

I think most Americans have their head in the sand when it comes to healthcare. I agree with you completely btw, as an American expat living abroad. It's so bloody obvious how the profit motive distorts all of US medicine when you are not living in that system anymore. Honestly, it's like something out of a corpo-capitalist dystopian film.

I wouldn't trust a US doctor or dentist (oh god, US dentists are probably the scummiest healthcare professionals on the planet) unless it's something very obvious.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#322

Post by oblio »

gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

It's not that... it's parents' start times at work.

A lot of places have very rigid work schedules and schools need to account for a certain percentage of parents dropping kids off and then driving to school.

Kids are sacrificed because, surprise-surprise, they have no real say in the matter.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#323

Post by mcv »

uncletaco wrote: post #270
nicoburns wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't really understand why this is important. Presumably kids aren't playing sports every day of the week, so they'll have plenty of time to spend with their parents on the other days. I used to play Tennis from something like 5pm to 7pm a couple of days a week when I was a kid and that didn't seem to cause any problems.

Practice is every day of the week in the US For high school football players it's basically practice Monday-Thursday then game on Friday. For basketball players it's basically any day during the week that they don't have a game. I was in marching band and we practiced after school every day.

Sorry, but that's insane. That's fine for high-level near-professional sports, but for some basic school sports, training every day is ridiculous and sacrificing the health and education of the students for it is just plain stupid.

Why does this happen? Why does everything have to move for this? And if they really absolutely want to do this during daylight hours, why not have the sports before school, and have just the fanatical athletes show up really early while the other students can get a normal night's sleep?

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#324

Post by dragonwriter »

uncletaco wrote: post #177
nicoburns wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm Why would they need to be able to complete their sports before their parents get home?

It was probably more accurate to say before their parents get off.

> It was probably more accurate to say before their parents get off.

But, again, why? They don’t need to be done before their parents are done with work,

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#325

Post by tptacek »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #318
tptacek wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of families that don't need two incomes have two working parents; parents work because work is fulfilling.

Both parents work because prices adjust to demand. That is, if both parents work, prices can rise because demand rises (remember demand is the desire to buy, but also the ability to pay). When prices rise, this puts an even greater pressure on single income families. ie: their single income has to be stretched father because they are competing with two income demand. This is economics 101. While two incomes increases…

Nah. This sounds plausible, but it flunks an obvious empirical check: families where one earner brings in all the meaningful income and the other earner makes barely enough more to pay for the child care costs their work incurs. I know a bunch of families like this. Surely some parents work because they have to, but it's also obvious that many other parents work because that's what they need to do to lead a fulfilling life.

As someone who has been a caregiver for school-aged kids (mine are adults now): just what is it that you'd expect a stay-at-home parent to do once all the kids are in K-12 school? The kids are gone for most of the day.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#326

Post by BenjiWiebe »

RheingoldRiver wrote: post #277
tmpz22 wrote: post #40

As a teenager I used to stay up until 2-3am watching movies on my ipod touch - which had a ludicrously small screen by todays standards. I'm in favor of moving back start times but we should also better study and educate on the consequences of bad personal habits.

Is it "bad personal habits" though? If I wasn't staying up to 1-2am reading, I was lying in bed waiting to fall asleep until 1-2am with my eyes closed, bored to tears and completely miserable. So you tell me which I should have been doing.

That's my tendency. I can go to bed at 10pm but what's the point if I can't get to sleep till 1am?

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#327

Post by mcv »

prawn wrote: post #244
greedo wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School hours are set by tradition. My city provides no bus service to any students (excepting special needs kids). Crazy I know. Kids can ride the city metro buses for free, but those aren't the same as school buses.

What's the rationale for some schools having a bus service and others not? In Australia, I'm not aware of any metropolitan state school having a bus service, so it sounds bizarre that buses would dictate starting times. Some private schools might have small buses. Otherwise, public and private students would use public transport, ride, walk or get dropped off by parents.

In Netherland it's also only the special needs schools that pick up students in buses (because they're very specialised and kids can come from a very large area and might not be sufficiently able to travel on their own). But most kids just use their bike.

But I gather bikes are not a thing in many other countries.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#328

Post by dragonwriter »

adrianmonk wrote: post #189
deanCommie wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sports can practice before school Hilarious, given the original thread. School already starts far too early.

They're saying that, rather than having school from 8am to 3pm and sports to 3pm to 5pm, you could have sports from 8am to 10am and school from 10am to 5pm, for example. In other words, have the students who do optional activities come in early rather than stay late. Then only some students come in early instead of all of them.

If there is evidence that it is too early for kids that age, then its too early, and school-sponsored extra-curriculars shouldn’t be at that time.

Have some of the non-teaching staff time that is usually blocked into full non-teaching days split into that time, and add more but shorter teaching days,

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#329

Post by irrational »

gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

Exactly. I’m not a sports person, so I’m in favor of cancelling all sports. But I also realize that is a non-starter since so many more people (for reasons I don’t understand) want school sports.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#330

Post by BenjiWiebe »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #92
ArchOversight wrote: post #51

> This shift reverses at adulthood. The biological nature of this daily rhythm means that sending a teenager to bed earlier won’t necessarily mean they fall asleep earlier. No, this shift does not reverse in adulthood for some people... I am in my 30's and I still fall asleep midnight to 1 AM, and wake up "late" by most adult standards at around 8/9 AM. I can not shift my sleep schedule to earlier, I've tried many ti…

do you consume any caffeine after 12:00 noon? Caffeine's half life is 6 hours. So if you consume at 3pm, you still have 1/2 that caffeine in your body at 9 pm. 1/4 of it at 3am.

I have similar sleeping habits, and I generally have caffeine only at breakfast.
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