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Let Teenagers Sleep

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#191

Post by sixo »

msla wrote: post #184
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #157

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose. In actuality education system serves four purposes: One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and prot…

Thinking everything is a conspiracy is giving the assholes too much credit. The education system is an education system. It's bad because it's underfunded, mismanaged, and pulled in multiple directions for political reasons, not to mention occasionally tasked with impossible jobs, such as keeping a roomful of emotionally disturbed children going in the same direction using only one underpaid teacher and a couple para…

I'm sympathetic to OP, it's not that it's a conspiracy--it's the survival criteria of the system. It has to "work" as an institution to go on existing. Things that make the institution of education more effective tend to happen:

1. It has to be compatible with the modern system of employment (feat the 40hr workweek, generally a commute, workers who typically fit into many companies in standardized roles)

2. Opportunities to make it more efficient that don't run directly contrary to its stated goal of educating tend to happen, e.g. standardized testing. And because students move around and it's inefficient for everybody everywhere to invent their own curriculum, they need to be standardized.

3. It needs to be legible meritocratically, to its own existence and measure performance, and also to usefully input into the employment system.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#192

Post by jandrese »

boringg wrote: post #182
joezydeco wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why. We've been at our administrators for years and the response always is "the bus routes" but in reality it's because of the sports schedules. High school sports is a drain on the educational system, plain and simple. It lacks equity - an disproportionate amount of money is spent on very few children. The football coach in our HS has a Vice Principal title, so he doesn't have to teach classes but kn…

It's weird to discuss children as turning them into something profitable

That's the entire purpose of the school system. To make them into workers that can produce value for companies.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#193

Post by SoftTalker »

joezydeco wrote: post #145
gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

This is exactly why. We've been at our administrators for years and the response always is "the bus routes" but in reality it's because of the sports schedules. High school sports is a drain on the educational system, plain and simple. It lacks equity - an disproportionate amount of money is spent on very few children. The football coach in our HS has a Vice Principal title, so he doesn't have to teach classes but kn…

Private sports outside of school are too expensive for all but the well-off families. School sports are basically free for the participants, and they are good for kids' social development and physical health. Sports keeps many kids in high school, certainly if my oldest hadn't had cross-country and track he probably would have dropped out.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#194

Post by louwrentius »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #157

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose. In actuality education system serves four purposes: One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and prot…

"They want obedient workers. Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork.... " -- George Carlin

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#195

Post by westurner »

fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #17

As a teenager I was diagnosed with "ADD". Very intelligent, but unable to focus or complete assignments. My life habits were carb heavy unhealthy food (from the cafeteria), soda, lack of sleep due to long school commute, not much exercise As an adult, I eat no carbs, all meat and vegetables, I work from home and sleep in as far as I need every night. My thinking is laser sharp. They tried to medicate me with all sort…

/? ADHD and sleep; REM / non-REM: https://www.google.com/search?q=adhd+and+sleep

Sleep hygiene: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene https://www.google.com/search?q=sleep+hygiene

- Enough exercise and water

- Otherwise, limit calories and/or protein in the preceding hours

Sleep induction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_induction

Pranayama; breathing yoga: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranayama

4-7-8 breathing: https://www.google.com/search?q=4-7-8+breathing

Attributed both to Army and Navy: https://www.fastcompany.com/90253444/what-happened-when-i-tr... :

> The Independent says the technique was first described in a book from 1981 called "Relax and Win: Championship Performance" by Lloyd Bud Winter.

/? "Relax and Win: Championship Performance" https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Relax+and+Win%3A+Champion... https://archive.org/details/Relax-and-Win_Championship-Perfo...

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#196

Post by password11 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #157

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose. In actuality education system serves four purposes: One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and prot…

I generally agree with your criticism of the education system as an instrument of filtering/segregation but I would argue school has some practical value.

> Three - grade people into quality batches, based off their punctuality and ability to perform meaningless tasks to arbitrary and meaningless quality standards

For example, doing math is a useful skill, not a meaningless task.

> Four - because the management has gone though the same system of education, the pupils must learn to read through poorly worded vague instructions and understand what their superior actually wants to see, even though they are not capable of expressing it clearly. Poorly worded exam papers serve as good training

There is a lot of nuance to English communication, at least among native speakers. Things like active/passive voice, hyperbole, and different kinds of logical arguments are implicit to communication in professional circles. It's important to study them.

Also you're ignoring the cultural education that studying literature/writing provides you. There are tons of literary references in everyday communication and you will be at a disadvantage if you don't know them (a "Scarlet Letter", "Big Brother", etc.). These stories are foundational to Western culture and you are expected to know them.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#197

Post by freejazz »

kbrannigan wrote: post #187
andy_ppp wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno man, pre-civilisation and education wasn't exactly much fun either. I'd rather be a part of the system that basically gives us everything from food to iPhones and the Internet than fight against it (while avoiding predators in the wild). This is not to say that education, especially for boys and young men couldn't be made considerably better.

The older I get the more I'm realizing "pre-history", "pre-civilisation" are very Western European Concepts. Like when the Conquistadors "civilized" mexico Or when the Portuguese and French "civilized" West Africa.

but iPhone!

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#198

Post by lamontcg »

fosk wrote: post #179
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #157

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose. In actuality education system serves four purposes: One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and prot…

There should be two categorizations for students: highly creative students should be placed on a different path to adulthood, everybody else could use the current system. Highly creative people are more likely to be successful dropouts. To force highly creative people into this routine, is dictatorship of the mind. That's how it was for me. Edit: I upset the academics :)

Nice caste system you've got there

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#199

Post by SoftTalker »

sidibe wrote: post #188
deanCommie wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sports can practice before school Hilarious, given the original thread. School already starts far too early.

No such thing as too early. Our public HS swim team used to do the water part at 6am then cross training (running or weight room) after school. Probably because of pool availability

Swimming seems to have a tradition of pre-dawn practice times. I never understood that. Nobody uses the high school pool after school (unless there's a meet).

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#200

Post by raincole »

joezydeco wrote: post #145
gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

This is exactly why. We've been at our administrators for years and the response always is "the bus routes" but in reality it's because of the sports schedules. High school sports is a drain on the educational system, plain and simple. It lacks equity - an disproportionate amount of money is spent on very few children. The football coach in our HS has a Vice Principal title, so he doesn't have to teach classes but kn…

After reading all of these I still think it's "the bus routes", or more generally speaking, "the commuting".

I grew up in an asian country and my parents never picked me up after I was 10. I just took buses from home to school and then from school to home. I'm not saying our system is better than the US, but it's a bit of culture shock that everyone commutes in their (parents') cars there.

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