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The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

the-odin.com

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Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#111
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The guy that you can see in one of the pictures drinking from a glass recipient was in a Netflix documentary (I can't remember the title from top of my mind) where he was advocating for everyone being able to use genetic engineering for self-improvement, even without any previous knowledge of genetics. You mean the documentary unnatural selection. I have seen it, but I recall something quite different. He did infac…

>Does everyone understand what they eat? how electricity works? how their smartphone works? the drugs their doctor prescribes? True, but you always have to balance them with the potential issues that could arise. I don't understand how drugs works, and that's why I need a doctor's prescription to take them. Many people don't know much about electricity, and that's why there are laws regulating how electric wirings ha…

Absolutely agree. And while I don't recommend anyone to try this out on a DIY basis, historically a lot inventions we take for granted and have made our life better came from people literally tinkering around with stuff and slowly figuring out what works.

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#112
To all the folks who are so concerned about bad actors trying to develop organisms that will harm people:

Have you forgotten that the world is full of bad actors who are literally trying to eat people? There are not merely thousands of them but hundreds of trillions of them.

They spend all day long everyday trying to find a random path to something that can eat you.

It is the height of hubris to imagine that humans could outcompete that.

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#113
Personally I think this is a dumb idea, and just handing these kits out to people who don't know how to operate in a laboratory environment is pretty reckless. For example, let's look at a popular product sold here:

https://www.the-odin.com/diy-crispr-kit/

> "Includes example experiment to make a genome mutation(K43T) to the rpsL gene changing the 43rd amino acid, a Lysine(K) to a Threonine(T) thereby allowing the bacteria to survive on Strep media which would normal prevent its growth."

To clarify, this is a system for introducing resistance to the antibiotic streptomycin into E.coli, a human gut bacteria. Now, these kind of antibiotic-resistance screens are absolutely the norm in molecular biology and microbiology to select for successful gene transfers in cloning experiments and so on. However, as someone who has done a fair amount of this kind of work, you don't want your experiment to get all over the place, so you work in a sterile laminar-flow transfer hood, or at least in a fairly clean lab using sterile technique (which requires some training), and when you're all done you dispose of the plates properly (autoclaving is best).

As far as why this is an issue:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4775953/

> "The evolution of antibiotic resistance in bacteria has become one of the defining problems in modern biology. Bacterial resistance to antimicrobial therapy threatens to eliminate one of the pillars of the practice of modern medicine. Yet, in spite of the importance of this problem, only recently have the dynamics of the shift from antibiotic sensitivity to resistance in a bacterial population been studied. In this study, a novel chemostat method was used to observe the evolution of resistance to streptomycin in a sensitive population of Escherichia coli, which grew while the concentration of antibiotic was constantly increasing."

So, passing out kits to introduce antibiotic resistance in E.coli to people who don't know sterile technique or have autoclaves (pressure cookers work in a pinch, but still) sounds pretty dumb to me.

The whole 'biohacking' thing might sound cool, but while someone could probably hack together interesting electronic devices in their basement with no concerns, or write interesting code on their computers, a modern molecular biology lab requires a lot of expensive equipment just to monitor what's going on with the cells and gene sequences and so on, as well as a lot of experience and training to avoid cross-contamination and ensure reproducibility. You also have to manage the waste stream appropriately, there's a reason labs are regulated, you don't want to be dumping strong acids and bases into the sewage system without neutralizing them and on and on.

Maybe it's not as bad as the 'home nuclear experiment kit with glowing radium paint' but it's on the spectrum of questionable ideas.

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#114
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry for your child, but I'm not delighted. The guy that you can see in one of the pictures drinking from a glass recipient was in a Netflix documentary (I can't remember the title from top of my mind) where he was advocating for everyone being able to use genetic engineering for self-improvement, even without any previous knowledge of genetics. And this is what I take issue with. Sure genetic engineering has a…

> The guy that you can see in one of the pictures drinking from a glass recipient was in a Netflix documentary (I can't remember the title from top of my mind) where he was advocating for everyone being able to use genetic engineering for self-improvement, even without any previous knowledge of genetics. You mean the documentary unnatural selection. I have seen it, but I recall something quite different. He did infac…

Do any of these mature technologies, tested by time, limited by safety standards or implemented by trained experts result in unknown genetic damage passed down to uncountable generations? (please don't say smartphones). These transhuman/biohacker talking points really don't stand up to mild scrutiny.

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#115

To all the folks who are so concerned about bad actors trying to develop organisms that will harm people: Have you forgotten that the world is full of bad actors who are literally trying to eat people? There are not merely thousands of them but hundreds of trillions of them. They spend all day long everyday trying to find a random path to something that can eat you. It is the height of hubris to imagine that humans c…

You're right. We should abolish anti-terrorism laws. Or rules outlawing murder for that matter.

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#116

As a parent of a child with a genetic disorder for which it is perfectly possible to develop a therapy using current technology, I'm delighted to see that biohackers are stirring things up. Let's hope this inspires the industry to rethink their approach to drug development.

Last time something genetics based was developed fast, and succesful, quite a few people went on the fences over it: Covid mRNA vaccines.

There are reasons why medical development takes time and money. And why rare diseases are underserved. And no amount of "disruption" is going to change the simple question of cost in that equation. So if VCs want to change that, they can simply use some of their "free" billions to fund proper development and research.

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#118
post #94

As a parent of a child with a genetic disorder for which it is perfectly possible to develop a therapy using current technology, I'm delighted to see that biohackers are stirring things up. Let's hope this inspires the industry to rethink their approach to drug development.

I'm sorry for your child, but I'm not delighted. The guy that you can see in one of the pictures drinking from a glass recipient was in a Netflix documentary (I can't remember the title from top of my mind) where he was advocating for everyone being able to use genetic engineering for self-improvement, even without any previous knowledge of genetics. And this is what I take issue with. Sure genetic engineering has a…

I'm inclined to agree with you; the thought of just "some dude" mucking about with the genetics of a virus is horrifying.

And yet, computers are extremely powerful tools, arguably the most powerful we have created.

And look what free access to them has accomplished... Sure, it has caused quite a bit of cyber crime, but it's all balanced out by a massive amount of open and freely exchanged innovation.

Now imagine an alternate history where we somehow restricted access to programming to people with computer science degrees working under registered companies... I think that history would be pretty regressive.

So I think your reaction is understandable, I share it, but also hold some significant doubts.

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#119
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your comment confuses me, I would appreciate it if you could please clarify - you rent a 25m2 lab for 10 euro/m2, so 25eur for the whole lab? For how long is this price? Per hour, day, week, month?

I read this as 250eur/month for a 25 m2 space.

This, 250 bugs per month for access to the lab. Some machines will have to be shared. It is intended that you get some even cheaper office space too.

Heating, electricity and some services are on top, but overall that is ridiculously cheap.

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#120
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but keep in mind that in Germany an s1 time share lab ( including equipment ) of 25m2 can be rented from 10€ per square meter. That is less than you pay rent. They really want people to do bio stuff. https://www.bio-security.de/s1-s2-labore-bueros-mieten/

your comment confuses me, I would appreciate it if you could please clarify - you rent a 25m2 lab for 10 euro/m2, so 25eur for the whole lab? For how long is this price? Per hour, day, week, month?

250 per month, I did not notice that the link is in German. Sorry for any confusion.

For comparison, that is about the price of a single room student flat.

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