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The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

the-odin.com

101–110 of 166 posts

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#101
post #62

> 70% of the world’s population was killed by NEOBOLA-26 but at least they signed the EULA. I’m making fun, but this is one class of knowledge I’m worried about. However, outlawing it doesn’t seem like a solution either.

Why isn't outlawing it the solution? Seems like a pretty good solution

if it's legal, it's still only available to individuals with the time, work ethic and intelligence to get good at it, the overlap of those with bad actors is probably fairly small.

If it's outlawed, it's only available to moneyed interests that need to practice institutional capture. The overlap of those with bad actors, well...

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#102
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry for your child, but I'm not delighted. The guy that you can see in one of the pictures drinking from a glass recipient was in a Netflix documentary (I can't remember the title from top of my mind) where he was advocating for everyone being able to use genetic engineering for self-improvement, even without any previous knowledge of genetics. And this is what I take issue with. Sure genetic engineering has a…

> The guy that you can see in one of the pictures drinking from a glass recipient was in a Netflix documentary (I can't remember the title from top of my mind) where he was advocating for everyone being able to use genetic engineering for self-improvement, even without any previous knowledge of genetics. You mean the documentary unnatural selection. I have seen it, but I recall something quite different. He did infac…

Broad-scale co-evolution means that if you use your co-evolved common sense on the co-evolved natural world, you will broadly speaking be safe. Even with a bit of experimentation on the fringes. Our technological world has then co-evolved with our common sense, which is why despite the several ways our houses have things running through them which can kill us, they don't manage to do it very often.

When you start playing with genetic engineering directly, you're stepping out of your co-evolved "common sense" space into a much more vicious domain, and you get a double-whammy in that not only is this space much more vicious, you are also very very much trying to interact it with intuition built by interactions completely unsuitable for it.

No, people do not understand what they eat, how electricity works, or how their smartphone works, but they are co-evolved with all those things. You are not co-evolved with the results of genetic engineering. You are also not co-evolved with raw exposure to the space of all possible drugs, which is why I left that one out of my list. Notice the incredibly more strict protocols our society uses around those than we use for food, electricity, or smartphones, because we are not co-evolved with arbitrary drug chemicals. None of the other three things are unregulated by any stretch of the imagination, but neither are they regulated to the extent that pharmaceuticals are.

Genetic engineering has a degree of danger beyond anything you are co-evolved with. I'm not directly arguing very much further than "you can't analogize it with anything you are familiar with"; it's a rich question. From a certain point of view (and a pretty good one at that) my entire point is that the question is exponentially more complicated than you are giving it credit for; I'm not trying to actually answer it, implicitly or otherwise. I mean "exponentially" quite carefully and mathematically; part of the co-evolution is that it selects a much, much smaller subset of possibilities out of the full exponential space, resulting in a much smaller "space of interest".

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#103
post #68
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been efforts in the last decade to engineer yeast to produce lysergic acid ( https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2011/jun/21/scienti... ). Apparently, a group managed to introduce the complete pathway and published an article last year: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-28386-6

That'd be some interesting beer

You can pop mushrooms and sip an IPA, same rough idea.

Standard Friday night in Denver, really.

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#104

The Bacterial Edit Kit is very dangerous. The sale should be controlled. Imagine if they edit the gene of a bacterium and we get a new pandemic? Only ultra-safe labs should handle this.

No it isn't. It's a harmless bog standard strain of E. Coli used in every biology lab everywhere. Just making the edits in the 8 week course with all of the right materials supplied is not guaranteed. To design a set of dangerous genes would be very difficult and getting someone to manufacture the plasmids would probably set off some alarm bells. The companies that make these things aren't just blindly producing and shipping anything you ask for, and making those plasmids requires a really sophisticated lab. These kits are totally harmless and inline with what you might do in an intro course in college.

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#105
post #73
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright but let's slow down a bit here... This kit is about plants, and it doesn't give you absolutely anything that those "few dozen smart guys" wouldn't have access to in a regular university. Meaning, if you have the inclination and resources to produce a deadly virus, this kit does not make it any easier.

Oh they sell a plant kit, but that is meant for practice. They also made a dog glow-in-the-dark. The guys at the Odin have done a lot of stuff on humans too. One of them tried (and failed) to give himself a gene that would have made him a incredibly muscular, and tried (and succeeded) in performing a microbiome transplant (as a cure for IBS). They have also tried (and failed) to do their own HIV treatment. You're rig…

Wait do you have sources for those stories?

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#106
post #29
post #13

I wonder how long it'll take until there are yeast cultures to produce various psychoactive/scheduled substances on the dark web. https://news.stanford.edu/2020/09/02/scientists-turn-yeast-c...

That seems like a bad idea. Just waiting for the escape and autobrewery syndrome

Then we just need DIY testing kits for unintended byproducts

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean if you're worried about bioterrorism, I'm sure there are plenty of ways and means to do so outside of convenient packages like this for someone with enough motivation. I mean with enough motivation anyone (assuming they pass a background check) can pursue a degree in biology / genetics, get a job with access to a lab, and do the thing.

It's also really difficult though. Just like people building their own nuclear bombs hasn't been a major worry. The real issue is the CIA, FSB, etc. doing it deliberately.

building your own nuke (at least from scratch) requires orders of magnitude more industrial might than biohacking

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference. Building a nuke is actually really easy [1]. The hard part is getting and enriching uranium. For the bio stuff, you only need some lab equipment, where there's no reason why it wouldn't get really cheap and easy to procure. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jun/24/usa.science

But it still took the best physicists in the world with unlimited resources almost a decade to do so... That article is a nice thought experiment, but they didn't actually build it.

Like many things, doing something for the first time with no proven blueprint is a lot harder than re-creating a process that you know works. And there's plenty of leaked/released information out there that a sufficiently interested party would very easily be able to obtain most of the steps/schematics necessary.

It's a little outdated at this point, but McPhee's 'The Curve of Binding Energy' is a fascinating read on this topic

Re: The Odin – DIY genetic engineering

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also really difficult though. Just like people building their own nuclear bombs hasn't been a major worry. The real issue is the CIA, FSB, etc. doing it deliberately.

There's a difference. Building a nuke is actually really easy [1]. The hard part is getting and enriching uranium. For the bio stuff, you only need some lab equipment, where there's no reason why it wouldn't get really cheap and easy to procure. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jun/24/usa.science

> The hard part is getting and enriching uranium.

That is an important part though.

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