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Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

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Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#141

Post by moring »

destitude wrote: post #102

Another example of people not taking into account the full life cycle of the products they purchase. Vinyl chloride was one of the main toxic chemicals dumped in this derailment and it is used to make PVC. You might want to think twice about using vinyl siding, windows, flooring, etc..

Let me rephrase that: "A toxic cloud was leaked, for all we know caused by subpar safety standards on the other side of the globe, which involved the same chemical that was used to produce my PVC flooring."

Based on this reasoning, which flooring (or other construction materials) are acceptable?

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#142

Post by paganel »

Chronoyes wrote: post #100
paganel wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this not a "failure of capitalism"?

Do these accidents happen regularly in capitalist countries such as Sweden, Norway and Germany? If not then perhaps the problem is not capitalism but America's regulatory system.

> Do these accidents happen regularly in capitalist countries such as Sweden, Norway and Germany

Don't know about those countries but I was in the general geographic area when this accident in Rouen happened, in 2019 [1]. The same as in this case, the main media (i.e. the Paris newspapers) pretty much ignored it, buried it in their 20th page or something, that's when they weren't calling really concerned people out as "paranoids". Luckily for me I was just a tourist in Normandy back then, so I got out of the area pretty fast.

Almost forgot it, Buffett himself was one of the major shareholders in Lubrizol. He even had the audacity to call it just an "unfortunate story" a couple of years later [2]. So, yes, I pretty much regard this as a failure of capitalism.

Later edit: This job [3] of picking up dead fish after an environmental disaster should have been done by a government-run agency. That way they would have correctly assessed the damages, the most likely causes, the compensations for those affected, the measures to be taken so that a similar thing doesn't happen in the future. Instead it looks like a private company has been employed to clear up the mess, in pure capitalistic fashion.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubrizol_factory_fire_in_Rouen

[2] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffett-berkshire-hath...

[3] https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/16250483862936330...

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#143

Post by colpabar »

lylejantzi3rd wrote: post #99
dcist wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This odd fact will spawn thousands of conspiracy videos and crisis actor accusations. Cue ominous music…

Conspiracies are a part of life and history. It pays to keep an open and curious mind.

Do you know the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth? Time.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#144

Post by mri_mind »

mattacular wrote: post #82

I see all the staunch supporters of deregulation across the board that normally come out of the woodwork on HN are strangely absent.

If a car ran off a cliff you’d say “I see the advocates for using the brakes are strangely absent” and if a car got hit by a train sitting on the tracks you’d say “I see the advocates for using the accelerator are strangely absent.” Nobody is against regulation and nobody is for it. It’s like saying people are pro water or anti water.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#145

Post by lylejantzi3rd »

colpabar wrote: post #143
lylejantzi3rd wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracies are a part of life and history. It pays to keep an open and curious mind.

Do you know the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth? Time.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of response are you expecting here? "I know the difference between reality and fantasy! The space aliens explained it all to me years ago."

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#146

Post by bombcar »

treeman79 wrote: post #119
bombcar wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is one way to be both without causing disaster - defeat the devil of depreciation. If you "invest" in your home/property by making it more durable and better you can have it go up in value and down in costs without needing infinite appreciation of land and structure. For example, if you can spend $20k (random amount) and forever cut your heating bill in half, that's an investment that will continue to pay divid…

If housing is being constructed at the rate of X per month. And population is increasing at X*2 per month. Nothing else matters. House prices will go up overall. Basic supply and demand.

Yeah, I was pointing out you can have an "investment" even if all the other supply issues are solved (enough houses are built to satisfy demand, etc, real appreciation is basically zero).

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#147

Post by goodoldneon »

mschuster91 wrote: post #123
goodoldneon wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the alternative? Pensions? If your retirement is dependent on a pension, and the pension goes belly up, then you’re left with a fraction of what you planned for (since PGBC doesn’t cover it all)

> What’s the alternative? Pensions? In Germany, we have a "rollover system" - you pay a government-mandated fixed percentage of your income into pensions system in exchange for pension credits. The contributions from all current payers (plus a sizable chunk of tax money) are then distributed to current pension receivers, and the worth of a pension credit point ("Rentenpunkte") is regularly-ish adjusted for inflation.

Is that similar to Social Security in the US? Maybe Social Security is at a smaller scale

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#148

Post by ldh0011 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #126
brightball wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The realistic alternative is multigenerational family units sticking together. Grandparents help raise the grand kids instead of day care and baby sitters. Kids take care of their aging parents. Communities pull together to help each other. There are complexities to it, but without a lot of the artificial financial structures that we have in place (loans, insurance, stocks, government programs) that’s probably what s…

Outright impossible to do with the demands of employment these days - young people are expected to go wherever the jobs are, they cannot stick around in some backwater rural town to take care of their parents. Not to mention that people these days don't have anywhere close to enough children, and it's pretty immoral to force people to breed like rabbits for their retirement.

Children sticking around isn't the only option. My mom intends to follow me once I've found a place to settle down in the next few years. I'll give her extra money which should allow her to live quite well on top of what she has saved and she's already expressed interest in helping with grandkids if I have any (I probably will at some point).

Obviously this plan is made much easier by remote work and good earning potential for tech workers and I suppose some parents will be more attached to where they currently live than my mom is. But multi-generational is not outright impossible, I'd wager a significant chunk of the population could pull it off to varying degrees in one way or another.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#149

Post by colpabar »

lylejantzi3rd wrote: post #145
colpabar wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth? Time.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of response are you expecting here? "I know the difference between reality and fantasy! The space aliens explained it all to me years ago."

None really - it was a joke. Claiming that the bush administration was lying about iraq having weapons of mass destruction would have been called a conspiracy theory, yet in time, we learned it was true.

I agree with you. I updated my original comment because I screwed up the wording.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#150

Post by andreasley »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #27
dcist wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This odd fact will spawn thousands of conspiracy videos and crisis actor accusations. Cue ominous music…

Derailment can be a result of sabotage. The location is near major food and water sources. So while not exactly a conspiracy yet, it seems important to understand exactly what occurred in this derailment.

Allegedly, some axles were already on fire 20 miles before the crash: https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2023/02/10/...
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