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Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

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Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#41

Post by Spooky23 »

sclarisse wrote: post #22
candiddevmike wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make these companies government owned and operate them like the post office.

Not sure if adding sovereign immunity to the situation would help. Managers take shortcuts to get ahead in a lot of situations; consider, for instance, Chernobyl. It’s one of the reasons I think the “prioritizing profits” narrative rings hollow. Any profits they would have preserved by not-stopping for the first hotbox detector? Already burned by the costs of the closure and the response so far. If anything, chasing…

Remember the profit gets realized upfront and benefits the leadership. The disaster is the future guy‘a problem.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#42

Post by JustSomeNobody »

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #14

> Residents are concerned about long-term effects of low-grade exposure. > “There’s all that smoke and all those chemicals in there,” said Mason Shields, who lives in East Palestine and visited an aid center outside the evacuation zone. “I’m wondering if it’s even going to be safe for people to return within the next week or month or however long.” Generally speaking, I read the news because I want to learn facts abo…

If these thoughts were not recorded, I'm sure some executive would say the town simply isn't concerned, therefore, all is well.

Therefore, these ARE facts.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#43

Post by mschuster91 »

88913527 wrote: post #35
Frost1x wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we're seeing more and more of these issues due to corner cutting in various industries. Air travel has already been a tight margin industry and take at look at all the air related issues we've seen recently, from FAA systems down to mass cancelations due to infrastructure to the recent runway conflicts and accidents we've seen. Speaking from anecdotal experience, over the years this constant push for more c…

Not that I disagree with you, but me and many others are planning our retirements accounts around assumptions of 8-9% growth. Stock market returns and real economic productivity aren't the same thing, but I think it would be deeply challenging for us to change course. Low growth creates a lot of new issues which are debatably worse than the axles-on-fire problem, but this is a conterfactual argument.

> Not that I disagree with you, but me and many others are planning our retirements accounts around assumptions of 8-9% growth.

Actions have consequences. When the entire retirement plan of everyone in the country able to set money aside in a 401k (which isn't applicable for a lot of low-wage employees) is tied to the stock markets, politics is effectively held hostage by the companies in the S&P 500 - politicians simply can't risk enacting any policy that could send these stocks tanking.

The US is in for a really, really wild ride for the next decades as a lot of things that have to be done simply to keep the planet able to support human life will be things that massively complicate or, in the case of anything fossil fuel related, make impossible the business of a lot of large companies, which will send their stocks tanking.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#44

Post by JustSomeNobody »

YPCrumble wrote: post #26

How much should people care about this who live in various radiuses? I.e., within 200 miles, is there zero cause for concern? Or is the type of thing that will do something like remove five years of life on average for people within five miles, one year within 100 miles, one month within 300 miles, etc.?

We should all be concerned no matter the radius. This will happen elsewhere if nothing is done to address the issues. And right now, far too many people are silent on this.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#45

Post by ClumsyPilot »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #8
Frost1x wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we're seeing more and more of these issues due to corner cutting in various industries. Air travel has already been a tight margin industry and take at look at all the air related issues we've seen recently, from FAA systems down to mass cancelations due to infrastructure to the recent runway conflicts and accidents we've seen. Speaking from anecdotal experience, over the years this constant push for more c…

Industries like airlines and railroad have the problem where you can't cut the corners that can be tastefully and carefully cut because once upon a time someone went overboard, hands were wrung, and a law or rule was made. So then when you're squeezed you cut some corner no sane person would cut with predictable results. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that the railroad had implemented the XKCD 28hr day or something…

So you cut corner A because that has results in disaster, now they've cut corner B and that resulted in disaster?

Do they have an Obsessive Compulsive Corner Cutting Disorder?

Sounds like the 'problem' is irresponsible management and investors that never suffer the consequences of their actions.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#46

Post by mschuster91 »

bko wrote: post #23
candiddevmike wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make these companies government owned and operate them like the post office.

If it's state controlled and an accident happens and there is a govt investigation, do you think it'll be more stern than one on a private company? Do you think enforcement of rules is stricter when enforced in house? I don't see the reasoning as to why state run services would be somehow safer. The state should set out the rules and enforce strictly

> If it's state controlled and an accident happens and there is a govt investigation, do you think it'll be more stern than one on a private company? Do you think enforcement of rules is stricter when enforced in house?

At least it's easier to hold public officials accountable - you can get rid of them by voting - than to hold companies accountable.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#47

Post by sschueller »

What is very frustrating is that health effects can be slow as in 20-30 years. By then the people who committed the crime are long gone or will claim the statute has expired.

Another thing that is done is just sell the company and then the new owner claims that was the predecessor and that the new company no longer have any liability. Ala Union Carbide or even Monsanto. In fact one company recently said they only by the assets not the liabilities which is absurd (might have been Bayer).

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#48

Post by jtbayly »

candiddevmike wrote: post #15
Frost1x wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we're seeing more and more of these issues due to corner cutting in various industries. Air travel has already been a tight margin industry and take at look at all the air related issues we've seen recently, from FAA systems down to mass cancelations due to infrastructure to the recent runway conflicts and accidents we've seen. Speaking from anecdotal experience, over the years this constant push for more c…

Make these companies government owned and operate them like the post office.

From: https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rule...

>Documents show that when current transportation safety rules were first created, a federal agency sided with industry lobbyists and limited regulations governing the transport of hazardous compounds.

I really don't think government owning the company is going to help.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#49

Post by mschuster91 »

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #14

> Residents are concerned about long-term effects of low-grade exposure. > “There’s all that smoke and all those chemicals in there,” said Mason Shields, who lives in East Palestine and visited an aid center outside the evacuation zone. “I’m wondering if it’s even going to be safe for people to return within the next week or month or however long.” Generally speaking, I read the news because I want to learn facts abo…

> If I wanted to read the thoughts of some random person who is feeling anxious about something they’re ignorant about, I would go on social media.

It's one thing to ask random Joe on the streets if he's fine with immigration. That's pretty pointless.

But asking someone directly affected from a natural disaster or industrial accident by living right next to it? That's the kind of journalism that is needed, because it points out the answers that experts absolutely must provide.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#50

Post by [deleted] »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #34
BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #14

> Residents are concerned about long-term effects of low-grade exposure. > “There’s all that smoke and all those chemicals in there,” said Mason Shields, who lives in East Palestine and visited an aid center outside the evacuation zone. “I’m wondering if it’s even going to be safe for people to return within the next week or month or however long.” Generally speaking, I read the news because I want to learn facts abo…

Peoples' feelings and sentiments about things that are happening are also facts, and none too unimportant, since feelings and sentiments are often the basis for their decisions or their government's decisions, which results in new facts. Yes, we want factual reporting, but that people have emotions and fears is also a fact, that has influence on future events.

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