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Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

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Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#21

Post by ruined »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #8
Frost1x wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we're seeing more and more of these issues due to corner cutting in various industries. Air travel has already been a tight margin industry and take at look at all the air related issues we've seen recently, from FAA systems down to mass cancelations due to infrastructure to the recent runway conflicts and accidents we've seen. Speaking from anecdotal experience, over the years this constant push for more c…

Industries like airlines and railroad have the problem where you can't cut the corners that can be tastefully and carefully cut because once upon a time someone went overboard, hands were wrung, and a law or rule was made. So then when you're squeezed you cut some corner no sane person would cut with predictable results. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that the railroad had implemented the XKCD 28hr day or something…

it's hard to find good news coverage of the actual details of the dispute, but it seems to be fairly basic staff reductions intended to increase margin (already historically massive)

the keyword to search is "precision scheduled railroading" as that's the management term

recent nymag from last year's attempted strike

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/11/rail-strike-why-the-...

wsws coverage has labor complaint details

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/02/19/prec-f19.html

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/08/01/rail-a01.html

ttd, a union publication

https://ttd.org/policy/precision-scheduled-railroading-threa...

https://ttd.org/policy/ttd-president-greg-regan-testifies-at...

notably, workers are forbidden from calling in sick, and are complaining about scheduling that disregards sleep, reduced maintenance, and dangerously increased train length. railroads have laid off about 30% of staff in the last few years, and unions have struggled to achieve rules as basic as forbidding single-person crews.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#22

Post by sclarisse »

candiddevmike wrote: post #15
Frost1x wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we're seeing more and more of these issues due to corner cutting in various industries. Air travel has already been a tight margin industry and take at look at all the air related issues we've seen recently, from FAA systems down to mass cancelations due to infrastructure to the recent runway conflicts and accidents we've seen. Speaking from anecdotal experience, over the years this constant push for more c…

Make these companies government owned and operate them like the post office.

Not sure if adding sovereign immunity to the situation would help. Managers take shortcuts to get ahead in a lot of situations; consider, for instance, Chernobyl.

It’s one of the reasons I think the “prioritizing profits” narrative rings hollow. Any profits they would have preserved by not-stopping for the first hotbox detector? Already burned by the costs of the closure and the response so far. If anything, chasing profits better would have prevented this.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#23

Post by bko »

candiddevmike wrote: post #15
Frost1x wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we're seeing more and more of these issues due to corner cutting in various industries. Air travel has already been a tight margin industry and take at look at all the air related issues we've seen recently, from FAA systems down to mass cancelations due to infrastructure to the recent runway conflicts and accidents we've seen. Speaking from anecdotal experience, over the years this constant push for more c…

Make these companies government owned and operate them like the post office.

If it's state controlled and an accident happens and there is a govt investigation, do you think it'll be more stern than one on a private company? Do you think enforcement of rules is stricter when enforced in house?

I don't see the reasoning as to why state run services would be somehow safer. The state should set out the rules and enforce strictly

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#24

Post by jnovek »

candiddevmike wrote: post #15
Frost1x wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we're seeing more and more of these issues due to corner cutting in various industries. Air travel has already been a tight margin industry and take at look at all the air related issues we've seen recently, from FAA systems down to mass cancelations due to infrastructure to the recent runway conflicts and accidents we've seen. Speaking from anecdotal experience, over the years this constant push for more c…

Make these companies government owned and operate them like the post office.

Postmaster General Louis Dejoy was joking only a week ago that he'd like to see the Postal Regulatory Committee disappear. He's spent his ~3 years in charge cutting USPS to the bone. Government control does not necessarily mean oversight.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#26

Post by YPCrumble »

How much should people care about this who live in various radiuses? I.e., within 200 miles, is there zero cause for concern? Or is the type of thing that will do something like remove five years of life on average for people within five miles, one year within 100 miles, one month within 300 miles, etc.?

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#27

Post by alchemist1e9 »

dcist wrote: post #20
lylejantzi3rd wrote: post #17

Here's something for your daily dose of "that's strange:" In 2021 residents of East Palestine, Ohio were extras in filming a train derailment scene for the movie "White Noise"(2022). "Ratner, 37, is in a traffic jam scene, sitting in a line of cars trying to evacuate after a freight train collided with a tanker truck, triggering an explosion that fills the air with dangerous toxins." https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/11/he…

This odd fact will spawn thousands of conspiracy videos and crisis actor accusations. Cue ominous music…

Derailment can be a result of sabotage. The location is near major food and water sources. So while not exactly a conspiracy yet, it seems important to understand exactly what occurred in this derailment.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#28

Post by sclarisse »

ruined wrote: post #21
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Industries like airlines and railroad have the problem where you can't cut the corners that can be tastefully and carefully cut because once upon a time someone went overboard, hands were wrung, and a law or rule was made. So then when you're squeezed you cut some corner no sane person would cut with predictable results. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that the railroad had implemented the XKCD 28hr day or something…

it's hard to find good news coverage of the actual details of the dispute, but it seems to be fairly basic staff reductions intended to increase margin (already historically massive) the keyword to search is "precision scheduled railroading" as that's the management term recent nymag from last year's attempted strike https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/11/rail-strike-why-the-... wsws coverage has labor complaint det…

PSR is worth some controversy but the big problem here was ordering the train to proceed after a hot-box detector found a hot axle (saying that if it’s really a problem the next one will detect it, which it did, but it was too late to stop).

That’s just bypassing the safeties deliberately.

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#29

Post by neogodless »

m348e912 wrote: post #12
shadowgovt wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because the alternative was that it would ignite on its own time, eventually, and release it when the area wasn't evacuated. Controlled burn of volatiles is one of the tools in a firefighter's toolbelt for dealing with a HAZMAT situation.

Good summary here: https://twitter.com/RaleighFam/status/1622948184476483585 Fair point that it may explode anyway.

Original source for that video:

https://www.tiktok.com/@nickdrom/video/7199529468317142318

Re: Toxic gases connected to Ohio train derailment cause concern

#30

Post by alias_neo »

h2odragon wrote: post #3

Recall when there was an imminent Rail Workers' strike in the news? Which Congress bravely stepped in and prevented? Weren't safety issues like this part of the workers' complaints? There were multiple sightings of axles on fire before the accident: https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2023/02/10/...

"For an overheating alert, the protocol calls for the train to stop and for the conductor to touch a waxy stick to the suspected defect to see if it melts the wax"

I chuckled to myself a little at the thought of a conductor trying to get through flames to be close enough to touch the waxy stick to the flaming axle.

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