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Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

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Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#471

Post by somat »

npnpnp wrote: post #257
giantg2 wrote: post #133

Imagine if you launch a balloon for say $10k so that your adversary has to spend $400k on a missile plus $70k x number of planes x hours in flight. And now do it multiple times per week. Seems like a decent strategy.

A lot of other comments have covered other aspects, and here's another one. If balloons become commonplace, I'd bet that they don't scramble the latest and greatest to shoot them down. It could probably be done with a turboprop. The F-22 was probably used in the most popular case as a show of force.

The f-22 was used because it was the on-call aircraft and the balloon was at 60+ thousand feet. the f-15 perhaps could have done the job, but the f-16 would have trouble. Apologies for the meme format but it explains it so well.

https://youtube.com/v/koEQp8ImlnI?t=649

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#472

Post by wolverine876 »

gambiting wrote: post #153
localplume wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveillance satellites are very different to directly flying this equipment into US airspace, including the fact that this equipment could hold paylods other than ISR. Not to mention this comment implies China does not have equivalent spy satellites, which it does. Also the UN is an absolute joke. That article links has China and Russia complaining about the West being aggressors so honestly its kinda BS. Also forge…

>>Also the UN is an absolute joke UN is literally just a forum for countries to meet and discuss matters. Nothing more nothing less. I have no idea why people expect UN to take action, when UN is explicitly not an organisation for taking any actions.

The UN Security Council especially, and other organs, have singificant influence for setting and enforcing interntional law.

The UN also handles much more than military missions, including health, technical coordination, and much more.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#473

Post by wolverine876 »

philippejara wrote: post #214
handedness wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN is certainly something more than that, and not literally just a forum. They have an active duty peacekeeping force of approximately 81K people. While that's similar in size to the active duty forces from a nation like a Peru or Chile, the Blue Helmets have had a de facto quasi-blanket immunity when committing war crimes, and have some pretty horrifying history in places like Central Africa. For example: "Consi…

is there no mechanic for them to be prosecuted by the UN itself? as some kind of court-martial or something? Or even their own countries, sounds absolutely insane to expect the judicial system of a country that needs a peacekeeping force to come in to deal with it.

There are international agencies that can and in many cases do prosecute. Just Security regularly covers the issue, and are experts in it:

https://justsecurity.org

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#474

Post by wolverine876 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #199
tezza wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can provide legal cover for invading countries… Bosnia, Iraq etc. The UN courts can issue judgements… Human Rights Courts: e.g. Slobodan Milosovic, Radavan Kardzich etc A lot of the global treaties are kicked around there They also enforce peace zones (poorly) like Lebanon, Israel demilitarised zone. They coordinate aid programs UNRWA etc

I don't think legal cover is the right term. My understanding that basically all nations view their domestic laws as higher than the UN. UN decisions are more like a veil or facade of moral Authority

The UN is a powerful, active international organization. If you aren't aware of that, you don't know what you are talking about. It's certainly limited in many ways and imperfect, but it transforms international affairs, freedom, and human rights.

Ignorant, cynical claims on the the Internet do a lot of harm to real people, by tearing down valuable things that people need.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#475

Post by martyvis »

postmeta wrote: post #389
martyvis wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually this morning I was thinking about the inaugural and hopefully successful flight of Starship maybe next month. While it is meant to demonstrate capability to orbit, it won't complete it and is intended to crash land off the coast of Hawaii. I think it will be passing over China to achieve that. Maybe they would like interpret it as effectively an ICBM test - and by allowing these balloons to be shot down give…

That flight plan doesn't indicate flying over China does it, more like Africa? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2W788nSjJ4

OK. I was trying to find a full flight plan, and was thinking it might swing down from the North before it got to Hawaii

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#476

Post by Nevermark »

m4jor wrote: post #424
lost_tourist wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt is the US government doesn't know what they do, it's just the public that doesn't know.

I'd reckon this. The US government knows exactly what is going on up there at all times and most likely has the most advanced spying satellites and capabilities out of all countries. The NRO has been doing this since the 60s! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reconnaissance_Office >In 2012 the agency donated two space telescopes to NASA. Despite being stored unused, the instruments are superior to the Hubble Spa…

Presumably we have telescopic tech that could do much much better than that, but at some point the field of view would become near microscopic too

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#478

Post by Nevermark »

m4rtink wrote: post #289
they4kman wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, so the lore goes, Musk just wanted to send humans to Mars, and had no intention, originally, to build his own rockets. The first tactic was to retool an ICBM for spacier spaceflight, but the Russians laughed them out of the country.

IIRC originally Elon wanted to land a greenhouse on Mars, not people from the very start.

Establishing a massive functioning greenhouse on Mars, before sending people, still seems like a smart idea to me.

In fact, setting up as much automation as possible, pre-people, would be a good way to establish the human safety of Mars flights.

As well as supercharging the productivity and quality of life of the first Marsers when they finally do arrive.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#479

Post by saiya-jin »

handedness wrote: post #342
pasabagi wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are we comparing them to, though? The US Military publically ran (and runs) an international network of torture camps. I don't think the US military is especially bad: rather, all militaries are awful, all war is unadulturated evil, and any attempt to make it 'clean' through ROEs or accountability procedures is stupid.

The whole point is that they are without comparison. There is no other force like it in the world. By definition it may have to be that way (if it should exist, which I'm not entirely sure it should), but so long as there are UN peacekeepers there will be armed troops where nobody's really both motivated and able to prosecute their war crimes with any reliability. The legal framework surrounding UN peacekeeping is in…

Sounds like Blackwater to me, including sample unpunished accusations of war crimes like spraying crowds of civilians with automatic fire.

We all know US will declare war on Belgium IIRC if international court of justice will ever sentence any US soldier, all pretty unique scenarios.

Blue helmets may not all be saints, but they did and do some important security work in semi-failed states ie in Africa where otherwise gangs would chop civilians from other tribes if left unchecked. Also kept Balcan states more stable after war. You are simply choosing to not see forest for the trees for whatever personal reasons.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#480

Post by mgdlbp »

moffkalast wrote: post #322
haimez wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His article on the matter from 2021 is quiet helpful in understanding what’s (probably) going on here: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40054/adversary-drones...

Ok the fact that they found an actual patent for the cube in the sphere UFO is just hilarious. This whole thing is just genius on so many levels. Exploit the stigma about aliens by constructing small drones and make them appear wacky beyond belief to guarantee they'll go unreported. Exploit the radar filters for small and slow moving craft with motionless soft balloons. And it worked brilliantly.

Secret government projects involving combat with mysterious floating octahedra from the coast? Where have I seen this before?
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