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I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

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Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#41
post #3

Mindset and Setting are so important to have right. If you are not in the right mindset, go do something else. It reads like the dosage was also a bit too high for the first time, and while I appreciate medical purity levels in things the doc can give you, injecting everything is just ew. You can get plenty of that active ingredient ingesting it like a normal savage through your face like God intended. Anyway, ketami…

> > and go to a rave Does the rave music become any good once you pop MDMA? I don't like EDM and unless the MDMA also changes musical tastes then I'd rather be listening to classical, acid rock or ProgRock. Or watch a movie or better yet be having sex if the stim dick I keep hearing about doesn't present itself.

The music is fantastic without drugs, you just have to go to shows that don't cater to the "EDM" crowd. (If everyone looks like frat bros, thats them)

However, in the case of really obnoxious dubstep, LSD definitely helps

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#42

Unfortunate the author 1) wasn't made aware of just how mind altering of an experience it can be and 2) seems to have been misled that this treatment can simply "cure depression" on its own It's my experience that psychedelics can help open your mind to different perspectives and spot unaddressed issues (I believe they're issues you just aren't "allowing" yourself to see/address), but to just take it in a clinical se…

I’ve read enough anecdotes to conclude that most clinics are downright irresponsible. This could be in part due to the newish nature of the treatment. I was fortunate to find a professional clinic in my area for IV treatment, but even as a semi-experienced drug user, ketamine was a lot at times. Fortunately, the clinic slowly ramped up dosage each session, always confirming my comfort with increasing the dose.

I now do at-home lozenges and let me tell you, 200mg is about as far as I can push it without things getting scary. For someone new to psychedelics, this would be a terrifying amount.

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#43

Can’t possibly discount the possibility that this is FUD put out by the pharmaceutical industry to counterweight the increased openness to psychedelics, in part from Pollan’s How to Change Your Mind book and Netflix series. My experience has been that with proper set and setting, I got months of relief from a good psychedelic experience. Shrooms. My first mushroom trip I had tears streaming down my face for something…

I'm sure you could find some unhappy trip experiences on erowid if you believe it is literally impossible that anyone could have a negative experience.

A piece can be both FUD and true. In fact, often times the more truth that is in the piece the better it can be at sowing fear, uncertainty and doubt.

1. The author admits there was not a long term negative impact on his treatment.

2. People have negative reactions to depression treatments every day. Many of them are much worse. Virtually none of them end up in the washington post.

3. Untreated depression can have a much worse outcome than this treatment had on this patient.

4. This article provides no statistical information required to accurately judge the effectiveness of the treatment, or to compare it to other depression treatments, or to compare it to untreated depression. If this data showed a bleak view of ketamine treatment I think it would have been included in the article, given it's tone.

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think "this is a possible result of this treatment, as observed one time" is an illegitimate subject of inquiry because it's not a table of statistics.

It's also worth considering that this one person's experience may represent the reactions of many. Over two-decades ago the Chicago Reader published one of the most fascinating "drug memoirs" I've ever read, and the author also had a terrible reaction to Ketamine, albeit under very bad circumstances: https://chicagoreader.com/news-politics/me-and-my-monkey/

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Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree with the advice but it’s a little silly to act like the institutions that have been ignoring life-saving and life-bettering treatments due to their phenomenological effects have some immediate monopoly on the right way to use those treatments.

No but that's an altogether different suggestion from advising depressed people go get high at a rave.

I'm not sure why there's such outrage at the suggestion. The point is that doing something enjoyable, exciting or joyful when taking these drugs is very effective.

Maybe raves for a 65 year old is not appropriate, but it can be anything really: being out in nature, being with old friends, going to a concert, etc.

Personally I wouldn't take any psychedelic in a doctor's office. That to me would be awful.

Doctors (and other "normal people") are very conservative about drugs, mostly due to a history of toxic and racist politics and law around their use (except those that "normal people" deem acceptable such as alcohol and nicotine). I'd argue personal experimentation can be more useful to many individuals than strict clinical usage.

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#46

I was making great progress with Spravato (eskatamine nasal spray) from April until the end of July. I then moved from California to Indiana and it took over a month and a half to find someone who could provide treatment (terrible mental health care in the state). Unfortunately I have never been able to reach a disassociative state since then and even spacing the treatments three weeks apart I haven’t been able to fe…

I am not a doctor, but I have seen some very negative reactions when people stop taking pharmaceuticals to use psychedelics again. I think the combination of your ketamine treatments reducing in effectiveness, the instability from moving, the adjustment period of discontinuing those medications, and the intent on taking such high doses of psychedelics is a concerning combination.

If you are unable to find the medical treatment you need in Indiana my suggestion is to relocate to a place that you do have access to the correct medical treatment.

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#47
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t know enough white suburban conservative Christian seniors. I agree it’s not exactly a huge group, but in my experience in the Midwest that’s where you might find disgust. Everywhere else? I agree, normal people are not in general “disgusted” by kids at parties dancing all night dressed in neon or whatever the kids these days do.

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Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#48
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t know enough white suburban conservative Christian seniors. I agree it’s not exactly a huge group, but in my experience in the Midwest that’s where you might find disgust. Everywhere else? I agree, normal people are not in general “disgusted” by kids at parties dancing all night dressed in neon or whatever the kids these days do.

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It's a protestant (or WASP- white anglo-saxon protestant) history in the USA that has caused innumerable damage on medicine, education, and what is 'acceptable'.

In sex-ed, we're not allowed to talk to children/adolescents that sex is enjoyable. It's against protestant morals. If something feels good, we're not allowed to talk about it.

And in that same view, doctors should never give out drugs that make you feel good. We even have a term for this outside of doctors offices: sin taxes. Alcohol, tobacco, cannabis, mushrooms all make you feel 'good', but that feeling good is somehow bad.

So yeah, there has been a stigma on psychotropic drugs in this country because they make you feel good. And that is bad to the WASP types.

(And that's ignoring the fact that white isn't even a race to be racist against. White is a social construct created in Virginia to mean 'not negro and not indian's. Later was also 'not asian and not jew' and sometimes 'not Italian and not Irish'. But I digress....)

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#49
I’ve been undergoing ketamine IV treatment every 3-4 weeks, and some of my experiences, especially the first few, were also terrifying. It reminded me a lot of the fear and panic I get from getting too high with weed. But at the same time, many of my depression symptoms were significantly improved almost immediately. I feel “unstuck” in the days and weeks following treatment and can course correct some of my stubborn depressive tendencies that have been going on for years.

So that’s annoying. The experiences are unpleasant but the longer term effects are useful.

The anxiety is definitely the hardest part for me, and I have some health-related OCD stuff, so the constant “checking” that I’m not going crazy is challenging too. I was legitimately worried for a little while that it was making me psychotic after, but my doctor confirmed that my symptoms matched intense anxiety and not psychosis so that helped me relax. And they subside most importantly. Now I’ve done ketamine a bunch of times and know it isn’t going to hurt me. I can almost completely relax into it, though a stressful image or feeling I experience can still induce a bit of panic. For some reason those tend to come up right at the end of my session, if they do at all. But regardless, I’ve gotten better at riding those like waves and letting them go.

For someone like myself with high anxiety, I do wonder if there’s a better way to mentally prepare for experiences like this? Maybe some kind of coaching beforehand? I had an intro call, quick health screening, an orientation where was told a bunch of facts, asked if I had any questions, and that was basically it. I didn’t know how incredibly difficult it could be and was not mentally prepared to begin treatment. I’m okay now, but it was not an easy ride. I imagine science is still figuring a lot of this stuff out.

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#50
post #3

Mindset and Setting are so important to have right. If you are not in the right mindset, go do something else. It reads like the dosage was also a bit too high for the first time, and while I appreciate medical purity levels in things the doc can give you, injecting everything is just ew. You can get plenty of that active ingredient ingesting it like a normal savage through your face like God intended. Anyway, ketami…

Did you seriously just suggest that people should ignore treatment suggestions by real doctors and go to a rave? And then have the gall to call the author irresponsible? This is one of the many reasons why normal people are disgusted by rave culture.

Not personally a fan of rave culture, but might they have more experience with psychedelics that most doctors?
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