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I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

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Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#31

Post by kranke155 »

mr_00ff00 wrote: post #23
NotPavlovsDog wrote: post #7

Anecdotes and auto-biographies are the easiest to write, as they require the least research and one is already so familiar with the protagonist. It will be nice to see ketamine and psychedelics as part of a toolbox professionals can use for treatment. Many current antidepressants cause strong suicidal and homicidal urges. Look at the widely prescribed citalopram disclaimer. Here's an anecdote: close person to me was…

Does anyone have info on how/why anti-depressants cause suicidal and homicidal thoughts? I know when it comes to the brain, conventional logic fails, but you would think anti-depressants would stop suicidal thoughts. I googled it and couldn’t find anything.

As far as I know our knowledge of the brain and how anti depressants work is so thin that the answer to your question is … we don’t know.

It does happen tho, I 100% had violent suicidal urges on sertraline due to a misdiagnosis. They immediately put me off it but I was terrified. It was the most sudden and extreme mood change I’ve ever experienced.

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#32

Post by Overtonwindow »

electric_mayhem wrote: post #15

Can’t possibly discount the possibility that this is FUD put out by the pharmaceutical industry to counterweight the increased openness to psychedelics, in part from Pollan’s How to Change Your Mind book and Netflix series. My experience has been that with proper set and setting, I got months of relief from a good psychedelic experience. Shrooms. My first mushroom trip I had tears streaming down my face for something…

>whereas shrooms had a more emotional component.

I believe others call it "ego death" but for me, in all seriousness, it was like being red-pilled. With shrooms I suddenly saw the world clearly, without emotion, without depression or anxiety. It was the "gateway" that gave me the confidence that a pathway existed to a life without depression.. That led to ketamine therapy and remission.

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#33

Post by throwaway892238 »

Very sad. What she's describing sounds like an intense fear of lack of control, trust issues, paranoia. By accepting her fears as valid, she is reinforcing the need for the blanket of control and distrust that she's probably been walking around with since childhood.

> But this was when I felt that I needed it most.

Maybe that's the reason it didn't work. If you're in distress, throwing yourself into the ocean might not calm you.

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#35

Post by cjbgkagh »

mr_00ff00 wrote: post #23
NotPavlovsDog wrote: post #7

Anecdotes and auto-biographies are the easiest to write, as they require the least research and one is already so familiar with the protagonist. It will be nice to see ketamine and psychedelics as part of a toolbox professionals can use for treatment. Many current antidepressants cause strong suicidal and homicidal urges. Look at the widely prescribed citalopram disclaimer. Here's an anecdote: close person to me was…

Does anyone have info on how/why anti-depressants cause suicidal and homicidal thoughts? I know when it comes to the brain, conventional logic fails, but you would think anti-depressants would stop suicidal thoughts. I googled it and couldn’t find anything.

Depression often has a component of being emotionally numb. The blunting of emotions can have a protective effect, reverse that and you could be in for an avalanche of emotions you haven’t felt in a long time.

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#36

Post by ethanbond »

emodendroket wrote: post #16
ethanbond wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree with the advice but it’s a little silly to act like the institutions that have been ignoring life-saving and life-bettering treatments due to their phenomenological effects have some immediate monopoly on the right way to use those treatments.

No but that's an altogether different suggestion from advising depressed people go get high at a rave.

Do we know that a clinical setting is advantageous or even neutral for these types of treatments?

Ravers/psychedelic community: “it’s the drugs, music, and community, man!”

Clinicians for 50 years while people are suffering immensely: “no.”

Clinicians after 50 years: “okay, we’ll give you the drugs in our clean room.”

Maybe clinical settings are fine, and surely the way to find out is by doing rigorous science, but it’s very possible still that the medical community is wrong on this and thousands of years of communal drug/dance/music rituals were “more right.”

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#37

Post by jevinskie »

I was making great progress with Spravato (eskatamine nasal spray) from April until the end of July. I then moved from California to Indiana and it took over a month and a half to find someone who could provide treatment (terrible mental health care in the state). Unfortunately I have never been able to reach a disassociative state since then and even spacing the treatments three weeks apart I haven’t been able to feel much effect at all anymore.

Does tolerance build up that quickly? It doesn’t help that Jansen and insurance won’t cover any more than 3x doses (I take them in one visit) a week.

I’ve thought about IV infusion which could give a higher dose but those treatments are also hard to find in Indiana and aren’t covered by insurance (about $1000 a treatment).

Two weeks ago I tried 1/4 oz of shrooms and 5 days later 800 ug of LSD. Besides the body load, the shrooms made me a bit giddy with slightly enhanced colors while the LSD only produced a few visual patterns. Clearly something wasn’t right if those doses weren’t sending me into space like they did 5+ years ago the last time I was using psychedelics.

I discontinued my medications, including Vraylar and Wellbutrin since they seem to have saturated my neuroreceptors or something. Since then I am feeling 100% better (going from 5-15/100 of my original mental health state to about 40-50/100 compared to pre-depression). I’m hoping with more weeks off of my previous medications, they might again have an effect but I’m wondering what other people’s experiences have been.

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#38

Post by to11mtm »

mr_00ff00 wrote: post #23
NotPavlovsDog wrote: post #7

Anecdotes and auto-biographies are the easiest to write, as they require the least research and one is already so familiar with the protagonist. It will be nice to see ketamine and psychedelics as part of a toolbox professionals can use for treatment. Many current antidepressants cause strong suicidal and homicidal urges. Look at the widely prescribed citalopram disclaimer. Here's an anecdote: close person to me was…

Does anyone have info on how/why anti-depressants cause suicidal and homicidal thoughts? I know when it comes to the brain, conventional logic fails, but you would think anti-depressants would stop suicidal thoughts. I googled it and couldn’t find anything.

I'll bite.

You have to find the right one, and the right dosage. Otherwise it's like having the wrong air/fuel mix in a car. Unfortunately a lot of doctors will just throw out whatever they think works [0].

A competent MHD, in my experience:

- Will use both a patient's verbally provided information as well as lab tests (i.e. neurotransmitter levels) in deciding what to try to prescribe.

- For initial starting of medication will follow up in 30-45 days.

- Changes in medication (examples might be things like dosage change, or changing within the same class of medication, i.e. going from one SNRI to another) will usually have a 45-60 day follow up

- Continued follow-up on neurotransmitter levels, 6-12 months after initial starting of treatment, and once stable every 2 or so years.

[0] - My favorite example of this was a doctor who insisted I continue to take a medication that was causing me to be unable to drive. When I looked around the room and saw that every single calendar, pen, and notepad had the name of said medication, well that frankly ruined my opinion of MHDs for another couple of years (which made it take longer to finally find the right treatment.)

Re: I Tried Ketamine to Treat My Depression. It Was Terrifying

#40

Post by greesil »

benmoose wrote: post #8
subjectsigma wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you seriously just suggest that people should ignore treatment suggestions by real doctors and go to a rave? And then have the gall to call the author irresponsible? This is one of the many reasons why normal people are disgusted by rave culture.

Those disgusted by rave culture really should get out more

I'm terrified that somewhere, someone is having a good time.
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