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The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

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Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#11
What is distressing is that the pattern of misuse seems to mirror other misuses of police arresting authority at the local and state levels.

Would this imply training levels not being what they should be in areas of complying with laws by law enforcement including the FBI, ATF, DOJ, CIA, NSA, etc?

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#12
That's why you cannot ask any government to protect its citizen digital systems, because there are too much interested in to get security holes for their own benefit...

Yep, we are alone in this, and with all those horrible standards/software(open source or not)/hardware, don't bother that much, it is unreasonable anyway.

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#13
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A system similar to this was already in place for warrantless surveillance, the FISA courts, which have become a rubber stamp. These systems that are supposed to be a check on state power eventually become far too comfortable with the agencies they are supposed to have an adversarial relationship with.

I don't have any experience in this area, but how would one know that the FISA courts are a rubber stamp, as opposed to the requests being brought to the court being only the most reasonable and well-defined ones? It seems like from the outside the observable effect would be the same (high warrant-granting rate), but the reality between the two is very different.

Two details:

Only recently has FISA been expanded to allow an amici role for government-licensed attorneys to argue against certain requests.

We’ve kind of had three phases of FISA:

Church commission FISA rejected 4 out of 25,000 requests. And those were approved after re-submission. Numbers like that cannot refute rubber stamp allegations.

Then, after 2001, submissions started getting wild. The rejection rate and public statements seemed to show some friction between branches.

Then, cooly around 2013, FISA seemed to allow requests on American citizens. By 2017, Wrey was arguing that FBI depended on this. And only lately do we have the amici roles.

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#14

What is distressing is that the pattern of misuse seems to mirror other misuses of police arresting authority at the local and state levels. Would this imply training levels not being what they should be in areas of complying with laws by law enforcement including the FBI, ATF, DOJ, CIA, NSA, etc?

I’m not certain whether it’s an issue of training or an issue of lack of accountability. It certainly seems like a time of reckoning must come for all levels of law enforcement, where we get back to upholding the law rather than being above it.

By now, almost everybody in the country seems to take issue with one or more areas of law enforcement and/or judiciary. Belief in justice seems to be at a very low point.

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#15
>While the analyst attempted to remove the US information, in some cases, it said, they “inadvertently failed” to do so.

A reminder that every abuse we hear of is one they failed at covering up. The most famous example of this is MKUltra, where everything we know about the program is from one document cache that survived the incinerator by being mislabeled.

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#16
post #7

Why aren’t these people in prison? They broke the law and committed crimes. Is it connections or is it that they have some sort of immunity?

Blue-collar actions are found to be criminal. White-collar actions are found to be unlawful and stopped. Government or politician actions are found to be unlawful and continue.

> Government or politician actions are found to be unlawful and continue

That got a laugh

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#17
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blue-collar actions are found to be criminal. White-collar actions are found to be unlawful and stopped. Government or politician actions are found to be unlawful and continue.

> Government or politician actions are found to be unlawful and continue That got a laugh

supposedly this SHOULD be accomplished through impeachment but it rarely is

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#18
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government or politician actions are found to be unlawful and continue That got a laugh

supposedly this SHOULD be accomplished through impeachment but it rarely is

Did you mean to reply to another comment?

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#19

Why aren’t these people in prison? They broke the law and committed crimes. Is it connections or is it that they have some sort of immunity?

Cynically, I think there’s a better explanation than those two. The LEO training is useful for spelling out exactly what you’re supposed to say in public. There’s another training in subtlety; maybe ad hoc. You learn exactly where the line is before a paper trail is made and the public can proclaim you “egregiously overstepped”

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#20
post #12

That's why you cannot ask any government to protect its citizen digital systems, because there are too much interested in to get security holes for their own benefit... Yep, we are alone in this, and with all those horrible standards/software(open source or not)/hardware, don't bother that much, it is unreasonable anyway.

I think the issue is more like, the agency that is specialized in security is also responsible for digital surveillance with practically zero oversight.
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