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Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

japannews.yomiuri.co.jp

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Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#71

Post by cbmuser »

ycuser2 wrote: post #3

As a German this is quite bizzare to me. Here, our politicians take Fukushima as an example why we should stop nuclear energy. People are scared of nuclear energy. And now Japan goes max nuclear.

Well, you know Japan is just acting like that because they didn’t have a Fukushima like Germant. Oh, wait!

On a more serious note:

Since the beginning of the Ukraine-Russian war, Germany fully returned 19 coal-fired power units with a total generating capacity of 7.3 GW to the electricity market:

> https://www.smard.de/home/rueckkehr-von-kohlekraftwerken-an-...

Germany’s last remaining six reactors had a capacity of 8.5 GW:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Germ...

Germany made a conscious decision for coal and against the climate!

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#72

Post by sjducb »

glogla wrote: post #38
ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people are scared of nuclear energy Let's not make policy out of unfounded fears. Let's look at some simple facts: 1. Fewer people have died from nuclear reactor meltdowns than from any other form of electricity generation. It is by far the safest form of power. 2. Even with the price of renewables dropping quickly, we will not be able to decarbonize quickly enough to prevent the terrible climate change outcomes. We…

> 1. Fewer people have died from nuclear reactor meltdowns than from any other form of electricity generation. It is by far the safest form of power. To extend this - this includes renewables. Dam failures usually kill a lot of people (I think the estimate for Three Gorges failing was 10 million dead and 100 million displaced or something?) and a lot of people get hurt due to accidents while installing solar panels a…

Rooftop solar kills the most people per megawatt hour. It's even worse than Chinese coal mining.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#73

Post by rich_sasha »

Dalewyn wrote: post #25
ycuser2 wrote: post #3

As a German this is quite bizzare to me. Here, our politicians take Fukushima as an example why we should stop nuclear energy. People are scared of nuclear energy. And now Japan goes max nuclear.

Because it makes no sense to not go nuclear. For one: Japan has no natural resources. Fuel for power must be imported. Materials for solar panels (or the panels themselves) must be imported. Nuclear is by far one of the most efficient /and/ effective forms of power generation humanity currently has. For two: Fukushima was a result of human incompetence, nothing to do with the reactor itself or nuclear technology ther…

I'd add, terrifying as Fukushima was, the actual damage seems far far smaller than the outcry. Actual death toll seems dominated by people evacuated through excess caution.

See this link for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_di... there is one confirmed fatality due to radiation, 2k or so due to evacuation, and an upper bound on future cancers in the 100s due to prolonged low-level radiation.

The earthquake's and tsunami's death toll is 20k.

So dangerous as it is to do statistics on human lives, it's a bit if a rounding error.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#74

Post by arp242 »

snvzz wrote: post #5

>Japan will also change the rule that limits the operating life of reactors basically to 40 years but tolerates an extension to up to 60 years upon regulatory approval. >Under the plan, Japan will allow power companies to operate reactors beyond the 60-year limit by excluding periods when reactors are halted for safety inspections or other reasons. In short, instead of running more modern, more safe nuclear power pla…

Fukushima was 40 years old at the time of the accident, and did quite well all things considering.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#75

Post by rightbyte »

emodendroket wrote: post #65
Dalewyn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans being humans will always be a thing, but if we let that be the showstopper then we can't do anything period.

If nuclear power requires more vigilance or competence from the people running it to avert disaster then that's a real demerit.

Which especially makes me nervous about all these plans for small reactors.

Harder to supervise for authorities and more "silos" where incompetence could emerge.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#76

Post by knocte »

lelag wrote: post #34
knocte wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the green movement is anti-nuclear, it is nuclear reluctant but given two choices, e.g. coal vs nuclear, green would always choose the lesser of two evils.

Come on. So you think political ecologists have no role in the fact that very few nuclear plants were built in Europe since 1990 ? Even France, the nuclear plant country(tm) has forgotten how to make them (look at Flamanville EPR fiasco). Now, everybody realize we actually need nuclear but we can't make anymore quickly and are stuck extending the life of the existing plants like Japan is doing.

Building new nuclear plants is pro-nuclear. I said green movement is not anti-nuclear but I didn't say it is pro-nuclear. World is not black&white.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#77

Post by cbmuser »

emodendroket wrote: post #52
Dalewyn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it makes no sense to not go nuclear. For one: Japan has no natural resources. Fuel for power must be imported. Materials for solar panels (or the panels themselves) must be imported. Nuclear is by far one of the most efficient /and/ effective forms of power generation humanity currently has. For two: Fukushima was a result of human incompetence, nothing to do with the reactor itself or nuclear technology ther…

> For two: Fukushima was a result of human incompetence, nothing to do with the reactor itself or nuclear technology thereof. The meltdowns at Fukushima #1 could have been completely avoided had the government of the time not been a bunch of worthless fools (hint: TEPCO wanted to scuttle the reactors before they melted down). Surely there is no reason to believe that couldn't happen again.

The reactors in Fukushima and their protection against flooding and cooling failure would have never passed German safety standards.

Japan’s nuclear safety standards were way too lenient before the Fukushima accident happened.

All the changes that were implemented in Japan after the disaster have been standard in Germany for decades such as hydrogen recombiners, bunkered emergency generators and a filtered containment depression system.

If any German nuclear reactor had been standing in Fukushima, there would have been no accident!

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#78

Post by orwin »

lucb1e wrote: post #62
askvictor wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For one: Japan has no natural resources. Fuel for power must be imported. Materials for solar panels (or the panels themselves) must be imported. Nuclear is by far one of the most efficient /and/ effective forms of power generation humanity currently has. How is nuclear fuel any different in this respect? Sure it's more compact, but it has other complications regarding transport. They're still going to be reliant o…

Imagine the sheer volume of solar panels needed to supply even a fraction like 1/5th of the energy demand. You don't manufacture and ship that to Germany in a few big orders, that's a decades-long process. By the time that's done, the oldest panels are up for renewal. Any country that is not producing solar panels (and that isn't a place like Norway or Iceland with hydro or geothermal plentiful) is effectively relyin…

They have available hydro. The issue is building a hydro plant that resist earthquakes.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#79

Post by zdragnar »

nonethewiser wrote: post #46
unglaublich wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can educate humans, or redesign technology to get humans out of the loop.

Who can redesign tech to get humans out of the loop? Humans who designed the original non fail-proof tech?

Demanding "fail-proof" is FUD. Even a windmill can fall over and kill someone.

What is good design and planning is "fail-safe" which is to say that any failure mode means the plant shuts down gracefully and with as little damage as possible. In the case of windmills, that means sticking them in fields or on open water where people aren't likely to be around. For nuclear plants, that means the whole thing is self contained and designed to stop reacting without direct human control. Every failure mode ends in the nuclear reaction ending with the radioactive materials contained.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#80

Post by ycuser2 »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #57
ycuser2 wrote: post #3

As a German this is quite bizzare to me. Here, our politicians take Fukushima as an example why we should stop nuclear energy. People are scared of nuclear energy. And now Japan goes max nuclear.

As a Pole I always found the German politicians’ stance suspicious. It has so obviously played right into over-reliance on gas from the east. Which is a far more dangerous and scary perspective than a single potential accidental melt down. And straight up corrupt considering the sheer scale of eastbound cash flow. This news does go to show that perhaps the Japanese have managed to set fear aside. It is an engineering…

> Would you say stances have changed at all in Germany from your POV since last year?

Not from my POV. There were long discussions to longer the running time of a few reactors by ... 3 months I guess? It was nationwide topic.

Germany wants to safe the whole world by "going by example". So instead of thinking pratically and realisticly "we" try do to things ideologically.

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