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Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

japannews.yomiuri.co.jp

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Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#51

Post by JanSt »

askvictor wrote: post #47
Dalewyn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it makes no sense to not go nuclear. For one: Japan has no natural resources. Fuel for power must be imported. Materials for solar panels (or the panels themselves) must be imported. Nuclear is by far one of the most efficient /and/ effective forms of power generation humanity currently has. For two: Fukushima was a result of human incompetence, nothing to do with the reactor itself or nuclear technology ther…

> For one: Japan has no natural resources. Fuel for power must be imported. Materials for solar panels (or the panels themselves) must be imported. Nuclear is by far one of the most efficient /and/ effective forms of power generation humanity currently has. How is nuclear fuel any different in this respect? Sure it's more compact, but it has other complications regarding transport. They're still going to be reliant o…

The solar panels have to be replaced at some too, don't they? And how many of them are being made in China?

Diversification will be key for the future - including nuclear, solar, wind, storage.

France took 10 years to go from very little nuclear to most of the energy coming from nuclear. It can be done if activist don't stop it and put up ever higher requirements to make nuclear less attractive.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#52

Post by emodendroket »

Dalewyn wrote: post #25
ycuser2 wrote: post #3

As a German this is quite bizzare to me. Here, our politicians take Fukushima as an example why we should stop nuclear energy. People are scared of nuclear energy. And now Japan goes max nuclear.

Because it makes no sense to not go nuclear. For one: Japan has no natural resources. Fuel for power must be imported. Materials for solar panels (or the panels themselves) must be imported. Nuclear is by far one of the most efficient /and/ effective forms of power generation humanity currently has. For two: Fukushima was a result of human incompetence, nothing to do with the reactor itself or nuclear technology ther…

> For two: Fukushima was a result of human incompetence, nothing to do with the reactor itself or nuclear technology thereof. The meltdowns at Fukushima #1 could have been completely avoided had the government of the time not been a bunch of worthless fools (hint: TEPCO wanted to scuttle the reactors before they melted down).

Surely there is no reason to believe that couldn't happen again.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#53

Post by emodendroket »

nonethewiser wrote: post #44
theshrike79 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fukushima was a result of human incompetence Also Fukushima was hit with BOTH by a record-level quake AND a record-level tsunami. And it still didn't cause a huge death toll. If the backup generators would've been higher up, most of the whole issue would've been avoided. Now they got flooded by the tsunami and failed.

> Also Fukushima was hit with BOTH by a record-level quake AND a record-level tsunami Not a coincidence given all of Japan has tons of seismic activity

In fact there is a causal relationship there

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#54

Post by mpweiher »

wewxjfq wrote: post #42
hsn915 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand, the FUD campaign was actually orchestrated by Russian gas companies to make Germany more dependent on Russian gas, and it seems to have worked.

Saying this while nuclear power depends greatly on Russia and no country could sanction Rosatom shows how grounded in reality these discussions are.

Here's some grounding in reality:

- Russia mines 5% of the world's Uranium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining

- The reason we only use less than 5% of the Uranium fuel, so throwing away 95%, is that the fuel is so cheap (= abundant) that it is cheaper to just throw it away

- Fuel costs are basically a negligible component of the lifecycle costs of a nuclear reactor

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#55

Post by lucb1e »

ycuser2 wrote: post #3

As a German this is quite bizzare to me. Here, our politicians take Fukushima as an example why we should stop nuclear energy. People are scared of nuclear energy. And now Japan goes max nuclear.

As someone in Germany but not German, this aspect of Germany is bizarre to me. You have green energy already and instead of maintaining it or building it out, you build extra coal plants, mine more villages, but shut the green energy down? Huh, interesting choice.

I understand the principles behind closing it. The old reactors are not the latest and greatest, there is this fear similar to the fear of flying (you're not in control and it has large consequences) even though it's the safest thing to do, and of course it's not technically renewable. What baffles me is that people don't see that this is still better than the alternative coal and gas plants that kill people on an ongoing basis from air pollution and global warming.

But you also have higher Linux, PGP, Threema, OpenStreetMap, etc. usages than any other country I know of. The "only the purest ideal is good enough, shut everything else down" mentality has its upsides in many (most?) situations.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#56

Post by herewulf »

locallost wrote: post #29
glogla wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure, but not only. The German way - turning off nuclear power to replace it with coal and gas while running token amount of renewables which will never cover the base load (because the required amount of storage would be insane), is very much the dream of traditional coal, gas and oil industries. Yet the Germans argue it is the best way because "what about the waste?!!!111" It is a shame that whole country manag…

Stop spreading disinformation. Germany not only switched off nuclear plants but reduced its coal use drastically compared to levels 10 years ago. I've posted data on this a billion times, and am too lazy to do it now -- checking the actual data for once before posting an opinion should not be too difficult. Sorry, but this is beyond pitiful.

How is that reduced coal use going right now? And next winter?

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#57

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

ycuser2 wrote: post #3

As a German this is quite bizzare to me. Here, our politicians take Fukushima as an example why we should stop nuclear energy. People are scared of nuclear energy. And now Japan goes max nuclear.

As a Pole I always found the German politicians’ stance suspicious. It has so obviously played right into over-reliance on gas from the east. Which is a far more dangerous and scary perspective than a single potential accidental melt down. And straight up corrupt considering the sheer scale of eastbound cash flow.

This news does go to show that perhaps the Japanese have managed to set fear aside. It is an engineering problem, might as well be scared to fly.

Would you say stances have changed at all in Germany from your POV since last year?

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#58

Post by Dalewyn »

askvictor wrote: post #47
Dalewyn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it makes no sense to not go nuclear. For one: Japan has no natural resources. Fuel for power must be imported. Materials for solar panels (or the panels themselves) must be imported. Nuclear is by far one of the most efficient /and/ effective forms of power generation humanity currently has. For two: Fukushima was a result of human incompetence, nothing to do with the reactor itself or nuclear technology ther…

> For one: Japan has no natural resources. Fuel for power must be imported. Materials for solar panels (or the panels themselves) must be imported. Nuclear is by far one of the most efficient /and/ effective forms of power generation humanity currently has. How is nuclear fuel any different in this respect? Sure it's more compact, but it has other complications regarding transport. They're still going to be reliant o…

>How is nuclear fuel any different in this respect?

We're already talking about what we will do once major reserves of coal and oil run dry. It's obviously not going to happen any time soon, maybe even not this century, but I'm not aware of similar sentiments being thrown around about nuclear fuel such as uranium and plutonium.

Nuclear power also does not belch out greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere unlike coal and oil. If we want power generation without greenhouse gas emissions, nuclear power is one of the answers.

>I don't see how nuclear solves this problem.

Keeping currently active plants active for longer means the immediate need for power is better satisfied and the need for /more/ power in the short-term is delayed.

This plan also calls for new plants which will replace the generation capacity lost from outgoing plants (coal/oil or nuclear) and hopefully satisfy power demands today and tomorrow.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#59

Post by pjmlp »

glogla wrote: post #14
cosmin800 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian trolls I would say.

For sure, but not only. The German way - turning off nuclear power to replace it with coal and gas while running token amount of renewables which will never cover the base load (because the required amount of storage would be insane), is very much the dream of traditional coal, gas and oil industries. Yet the Germans argue it is the best way because "what about the waste?!!!111" It is a shame that whole country manag…

The worst part is how everyone is allowed to block deployment of renewable energies like the Windmills, because it is not nice for the landscape, it is noisy or whatever.

In other EU countries it is done, period, no one gets asked for their opinion.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#60

Post by emodendroket »

simondotau wrote: post #28
ycuser2 wrote: post #3

As a German this is quite bizzare to me. Here, our politicians take Fukushima as an example why we should stop nuclear energy. People are scared of nuclear energy. And now Japan goes max nuclear.

Whether or not you support nuclear power, being “scared” of it is an admission of ignorance and indicative of short-term reactionary thinking. It ought to be a source of national shame, not pride. With apologies to Yoda, fear is the path to the dark ages.

Do you think we evolved fear by accident? If I were handling a venomous snake I'd be scared to be bit and rightly so. There's no reason to be proud of being heedless of risk.
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